Turo Virta: 1:08

Welcome back to the Fit Me Turo Fitness podcast. We often hear that we should eat better quality food, but what does food quality actually mean? Does everything need to be organic? Should we avoid all processed food? And how can we make better choices without becoming overwhelmed, spending a fortune, or trying to eat perfectly. My guest today is Travis Baumgartner, co-founder and chief customer officer of Sam Batzon, the company that helped introduce certified organic and fair trade Akai to the global market. After moving to Brazil in the 1990s and discovering Akai, Travis saw an opportunity to build a food supply chain that could support local communities, preserve biodiversity, and bring the traditional Amazonian food to people around the world. Today, we will talk about food quality, sustainability, labels, Akai, and how consumers can make healthier and more responsible choices without making nutrition more complicated than it needs to be. Travis, welcome to the podcast. And before we talk about food quality, could you share your background and what originally brought you to Brazil?

Unknown: 2:27

Oh, thanks, Turo. I'm happy to be here. You know, I moved to Brazil in 1995. I was living in California. I had two Brazilian roommates, and one of them said, "Hey, let's take a three-week trip to Brazil, which ended up being three months. I enrolled in the local university in Rio de Janeiro, where I was studying environmental geography. And like many people there at the time, I had fallen in love with Asahi. It was this fruit that you would find in on the corners in the juice shops. You know, it was kind of hard to find at the time because it was new to Rio de Janeiro. I would eat it. I, you know, I didn't know quite why, but it made me feel energetic. But I had no idea where it came from. Then one day, I was showing up late tardy to my ecology class, and my professor said, "Hey, do you know what that is? And you're holding in your hand. And I looked at the acai bowl, and I said, "I had no idea. And and he deter he just you know he decided to turn my bad habit into a teaching moment, and explain that asai is a palm tree, native to the floodplains of the Amazon, harvested not in monoculture or plantation, but in biodiverse agroforestry systems by these local riverside communities known as the Hiberinos, so that was my aha moment. So I flew north from Rio to the Amazon to see it for myself, and what I saw there, you know, was were these homes hidden along the riverbanks. They were really connected to the forest, and you had these families who were harvesting acai not by right clear cutting the forest, but by actively enriching it and managing it. So it was a fundamentally different model of agriculture, right? Not one of extraction, but integration. Not monoculture, but biodiversity. And and something you know ring a bell. Like this isn't just a tradition. This is actually the future. Yeah. So you know, we we there's a lot to learn. There's a blueprint out there that already exists in communities like the Hibernians up in the Amazon and all over the world, who have been the stewards of these ecosystems for hundreds, if not 1000s, of years. So there's a lot to learn from them, and it's a different form of you know of agriculture or way to you know feed and interact with the environment. So that that's that's what you know. That was the inspiration to start Sambazon. Sambazon is actually an acronym for the sustainable acai management of the Brazilian Amazon. So from day one, we made a bet myself and my co-founders that people, planet, and profit can scale. Excuse me. In you know, and and 26 years later, that bet's paid off. Right, we've been able to you know last. In our 2025 harvest, we processed over 70 million pounds of organic and fair trade certified acai fruits from over 350 Hibernio communities, covering over 100,000 acres of Amazonian biodiverse agroforestry-that's like the equivalent of you know 88,000 football stadiums. It's a big area.

Turo Virta: 6:35

That's huge.

Unknown: 6:36

And then the last thing I'll just to close it out that

I'm happy to announce: 6:39

starting in our 2026 harvest, we've now all of our Asaiwi process is going to have the regenerative organic certification, so it's like a step above organic, right? I'm not sure if you and your listeners are familiar with the regenerative certification. You probably do that a lot in Europe, but it's basically it's a you know organic basically means we stop putting poison into our food. You know, it's a movement that started 3040, years ago. It was a great step above conventional, but it's not. It doesn't take into consideration the biodiversity, right? The soil health, the human element, the animal element. So, you know, in Europe, you have this Demeter certification. A lot of these, you know, family-owned farms, right? So, regenerative is is pretty similar to that. And, you know, ultimately, we need to make sure that our food systems will be sustaining us for hundreds and 1000s of years going into the future, and this is what it does, right? This is what regenerative certification by a third party enables. So we're we're excited about that, and I'm excited to talk to you about right the you know the health aspect of outside and how that's inspired me and other aspects of my life.

Turo Virta: 8:14

Yeah, no, this is like first of all, I I apologize. I even pronounced it wrong because this is a totally new new thing also for me, and I assume for many many of listeners too, so what did you recognize in Asai that others had not seen yet when you first kept familiar with Asai? Yeah,

Unknown: 8:39

yeah. So two things, right? My very first experience in Rio de Janeiro before I even knew, you know, about where it came from or what it was. Was this just, you know, why is it giving me energy, right? Why is it, you know, something I couldn't quite explain? And you know what we found out that asai, it's a purple berry. It looks like a, you know it's about the size of a blueberry, but it's 95% seed. Actually, you can't. Here's the the seed. So we only scrape out scrape off the outer skin to make the acai puree. That skin is 50% fats. So omega threes, sixes, and nines, and then the purple color is the polyphenols, the antioxidants, specifically anthocyanins, and it's held together by fiber. So you know, and there's no sugar in acai. It's it. So that that combination, right, is like the Mediterranean diet, where you have olive oil mixed together with red grapes, and it's a superfood. So you know the fats in there; these healthy fats give you this sustenance. And what you know at the time, high elite athletes like the Gracies. Have you heard of the jujitsu family out of Brazil called the Gracies? Right, so they're actually from the Amazon. They brought acai down from the Amazon to Rio de Janeiro in the mid '80s when they were opening up their training facilities, and they were using acai as a big part of their Gracie diet as a you know as a as a foundation where they would lay so they had the healthy fats they had the antioxidants and then they would layer on other elements they would add in protein they would add in other fruits or granola so you know in the Amazon acai is literally the staple food of the 2 million plus people who live in this one region of the Amazon. They eat it every single day, you know, for 1000s of years. These hibernios. So there's something to that, right? It's been, and and and now, you know. So that that's the that's. I found out on the health benefits, right? Why was acai making me feel so good? Antioxidants, good fiber, and healthy fats.

Turo Virta: 11:15

Yeah. So was we use the words high quality food often? What does food quality mean to you?

Unknown: 11:26

Yeah, that's changed and evolved a lot throughout my life. You know, I am of the opinion that if you right, if you eat organic foods and you've got a a victim's mentality, and you're only going to that that organic food is going to be creating organic bad feelings in your body and your emotions. So first of all, you need to you know when we're consuming anything, I don't care if it's conventional, organic, regenerative. We need to start with a mindset of abundance, right? That this is fuel that's feeding my body, and it's going to make me a winner, right? It's going to make me strong. It's not taking away, and that's very important, right? Our frame of mind when we consume anything. So you know, again, if you're in the wrong frame of mind, you could have the best quality food in the world, and you're just going to have organic bad emotions. So, what's the point, right? That that mindset first and foremost. Secondly, it's like what is the you know? There's so many layers these days between what's in our pantries? What's in the grocery store? And where the you know what we put in our mouths and where that food actually came from, and you know especially here in the United States, we have you go into a grocery store and what seems like hundreds and hundreds of options and brands and labels is actually controlled by you know let's say 10 big food conglomerates. Do those companies have your best interest in mind? Probably not. So you know, trying to understand, taking some time to, you know, understand where your food came from. Right. If you're going to a grocery store, do a little research on the brand. See if they are, you know, are they the direct manufacturer? Are they working with the farmers, or is there a bunch of middlemen in between? Go to your farmers market, right? That's another great, you know. And who knows who you'll meet at your farmers market? You might meet your, you know, somebody super interesting, your next boyfriend or girlfriend-it's always a great place to, you know, community, and so that you know, really having a more intimate relationship with food and health and a mindset. Those are the foundations before I even get into like you know the macros and the micros. Am I getting enough protein? Am I getting enough fiber? Am I eating the right thing? I want to make sure that you know I'm. I've got a good mindset, that I've got a pretty good understanding of where my food is coming from, and I'm okay with that. Right? Whether I'm buying conventional, organic, or regenerative, and that for me, is first and foremost before I get into, you know, all of the specific nutritional aspects of of anything I'm putting into my body.

Turo Virta: 14:39

Yeah, no, absolutely. And here, here in Italy, it's it's funny to it's always interesting to compare how like where area where we live, like we of course I'm I'm so lucky and grateful that we have the opportunity to have own garden, where I basically whole summer season I eat from my garden basically and and most of the time like all fruits and vegetables they are coming from Italy and they are like it's available from like what you call the farmers market, or at least you you you have a pretty good idea where they are coming from. That they are not imported from somewhere around the world, like. But that makes I think it makes such a huge difference. But then on the other hand, like of course, all weekend here is not like if I would want to have a mango or or something. It's not growing here anywhere close. But what is your take on like that? Does everything need to be organic or what is what could be a good ratio?

Unknown: 15:41

Well, that's a great question. You know, there is a list of the I think they call it like the 20, right? The 20 like there's 20 fruits and vegetables that you want to stay away from, right? Due to their biological nature, right? Unconventional. So, so basically, there's 20 ones, 28 fruits and vegetables. Which, yeah, it's okay, right? And then 20 that are you want to avoid. You can look that up on the internet. But you know, normally it's fruits and vegetables that have a thin flesh, a thin skin, that like strawberries and blueberries and tomatoes, for example, where those conventional farming practices will lead, you know, they're they're very they're going to get into the the product that you're consuming, you know. Then other products such like avocados and bananas that have like a harder skin, those pesticides and other ingredient, you know, elements are probably not getting into the fruit that you're consuming, and I understand it's hard, right? Not everybody's got the, you know, organic is more expensive than conventional, but that's a good practice that I've always abided by, and I do it today, right? Everybody's looking how much they're spending, and I know that, hey, you know, I'm at a farmer's market. I can see that there's they've got you know an offering of conventional fruits and vegetables, and so hey, I know that farmer's making it. You know, maybe I'll have a conversation with them, and then I know that the there's these certain groups that are less susceptible to passing on any type of pesticides, right? To to me when I consume them, you know. Obviously, if you can go organic, it's great. You know, the the problem with organic now that I see is is if we only do organic, we're not gonna. We're not gonna get past another 50 harvest seasons here on planet Earth, right? Organic doesn't ensure the you know our legacy in the future, right? That future harvests are going. So that's why I'm really you know bullish. And our company is on the regenerative or demeter in you know in the EU, or that's you know the the soil is going to be maintained, the biodiversity is going to maintain, and ultimately that means that we're going to secure our food supply for a lot more than 50 harvests. You know, 50 more years is it's scary to think that in 50 more years we we're going to have a serious issue because we've depleted all the soil and so many other reasons.

Turo Virta: 18:33

Yeah. So

Unknown: 18:34

yeah,

Turo Virta: 18:35

how then somebody? Because you mentioned like organic and all this, they are very or getting or are already very expensive and getting like especially because there is limited sources and you can all people simply can't have access for it. So, if someone who have limited budget, how you can prioritize quality with limited budget?

Unknown: 19:03

That's a great question. I would, you know? Focus on trying to get again as close to the source as you can, right? Go to your farmers' markets or go to a natural most natural food store here in the United States. They do have you know conventional produce, right? Fruits and vegetables. They probably taking a better mindset about who they're sourcing from, and again, I would watch out. Like, hey, you know, there are some fruits and vegetables I would stay away from that are conventional, right? And and again, too, you know, there's the mindset part, right? You know, are you going to? You know, how are you going to your body? Right. I really believe it sounds like woo woo esoteric, but how you bless your food and you know being grateful when you eat that that's very important on how our body assimilates and digests and absorbs all the nutrients in in a meal that we eat, you know. It's it's interesting. I've you know I've been following a little bit your podcast, and I've you know I'm a survivor. I'd like to say because I've got a you know my wife is I won't tell exactly how old she is, but she's she's going through perimenopause, and then I have a 16-year-old daughter, so that's I got we got a lot of hormones going around in our house, and which is fun, right? And I've learned a lot about you know how right the the foods affect our hormones, right? I know that healthy fats, right, and protein and fiber is a godsend, right? It's something that's very beneficial for hormone balance and regulation. That's something that we do here at home, right? So when we're. We are protein forward, healthy fats forward, and fiber forward here, and it's really changed. We made a conscious decision here at our family that, mainly due to my wife going through all of her changes in perimenopause, that you know forced us to look at you know how we were, what we were eating, and it's made a fundamental difference in things. And yeah, that's been you know fatty acids are so good for us, right? And then those cravings we get, you know, they they those cravings are reduced when we're consuming fatty acids and proteins, we don't we we don't go after that sugar treat, right? We don't go after the the the the emotional lure of of sweetness, right? Yeah. So I just wanted to add in there. You know, I know a lot of your listeners can relate to that. Okay,

Turo Virta: 22:05

absolutely. And it's it's like what you mentioned. If you focus on those elements, what you said, protein, fiber, healthy fats, I guess that is a lot more you don't need to focus on, or it makes already like you don't you don't need to get everything on spot on. But for those couple things, and it makes such a massive difference. So then, what I wanted to ask is, what is your opinion? Can a processed or packaged food still be a nutritious choice?

Unknown: 22:44

Absolutely. You know, I think you get back to affordability, right? You're talking about, especially in the freezer aisle. Yeah. You know, there's right getting there. There's an option for someone who wants to consume more organic, right? Frozen fruits and vegetables normally are, you know, more durable, so you're not throwing them away. Less perishable, they're more affordable than fresh produce. Many often, and you get stuff that's out of season. You mentioned you want to get a mango, right? And and and so that a lot gives you a lot of flexibility in the kitchen too. You know, so when I'm looking at processed foods, I guess getting back to your question, I'm looking into processed whole foods, right? And not, and you know, something that I can turn around and and read the label and make sure that my grandmother understands every ingredient on that label. If there's some weird conserv, you know, preservative or stabilizer or whatever on that ingredient label, stay away from it, right? Yeah, that that that's my philosophy. And but we yeah we we consume you know whether it's nut butters or you know a lot of frozen fruits and vegetables, also proteins. Frozen proteins, you know, are great because you know frozen fish, frozen chicken, and you know I've got one freezer here at our house dedicated to proteins that we you know, I buy in bulk, and I make sure they're high quality, and then we eat them throughout the couple of months. But that that's something we do every, you know, it's a way I can buy a high quality product, bulk size. I portion it down, and keep it in the freezer. So yeah, I, you know, you're not going to find a lot of, you know, lots here in the United States. There's a lot of this snacking craze, right? Everybody wants to have a little snack, and a lot of those processed, packaged foods, I tend to stay away from unless I'm flipping it around, looking in those ingredients, and I'm I feel okay with those ingredients. There's no seed oils. There's no weird stabilizers or preservatives. But I honestly, you know, instead of having a an energy bar, I'd rather just carry some nuts, mixed nuts, and peanut butter. You know, which or a banana. Yeah, no, that's cheaper and it's easier, right? Processed foods, packaged foods are more expensive at the most part, and they're unhealthy for the most part. So I really try to stay away from those, especially when I'm traveling. You know, another thing, a lot of us travel a lot, and you know, you can and airport foods expensive, and eating out's expensive, and I, you know, I make a conscious effort to boil some eggs, bring a banana and some nuts and some jerky or something like that when I'm traveling.

Turo Virta: 26:00

No, absolutely, and those they are-they sound like a small decision, small choice. But they make such a big difference, and I love that your freezer example. That's what I love to do. I do it even with the fruits. Like we have local fruits. Like of course they are always seasonal, and it's like that. It's all of a sudden like we have apricots or we have a plums. Like they are they are now here, and then you have unlimited amount. But I or or some berries like blackberries and stuff like that. But they are like I'm so grateful first of all to have to be able to live in a place where they grow. But of course, season is so short. So what I do personally, I always harvest them. I freeze them. I use them. I know that you can't eat some plums. They are looking like how you how you freeze them. But I use them in my smoothie then whole year long, so it's not that of course you can't eat as fruit as a like if you freeze some fruit and then you put it out from your freezer, it's not gonna be eatable. But if you use it as a in a smoothie or or doing like some self-made ice cream, or so finding some different ways how to make it like that it lasts longer, and when you know where it's coming, that's what I personally think and try to do all the time. Like, but of course, it's it's it takes a little bit time and effort to think about those things in advance, and of course, easiest option is always to wrap that snack bar or whatever. But it's it makes such a big difference, especially in the long term.

Unknown: 27:39

Oh, that's great! Yeah, we we hear you know the practice we have, we dedicate like one day a week making food, prepping food for the week. I've got two children, and you know we we really like we'll go to the farmers market or to the natural grocery store, and then we're making you know a bunch of stuff for the week, right? Or pulling stuff that we put in bulk, you know, out of our freezers, and and you know that's because yeah, we get busy, right? And during the week, we're all working. We don't have a lot of time, so we want to keep it simple. I don't want to make things complicated, but it's just a practice, just like I work out, just like I meditate, or just like um, doing anything else. It's it's a it's a practice that we have integrated into our lives here, and you know it's only provided really good benefits and abundance for my family. So we just you know you got to make it part of your life and your routine, and when you do that, there's joy in it, and and it becomes and then you like, oh wow! I need to do this, right? If it's something that's beneficial for you, you're going to keep doing it.

Turo Virta: 28:54

Absolutely, absolutely. So now I I wanted to talk a little bit about Asai, and Gus, obviously that is your expertise. And is Asai truly a superfood, or is that partly marketing?

Unknown: 29:10

Well, that's a great question. You know, acai. You know, as I explain, it's been consumed in the Amazon as one of their staple foods for hundreds and years. Right, the Gracies, right, saw it as a. It's a fundamental part of their training diet. Now, what's happened is acai has been turned into this like trendy dessert, and acai, due to the fact that it has no sugar in it, needs to be sweetened. A lot of people write what is sweeten it, so they're sweetening it with you know anything, and then they're putting on a lot more toppings and granola. Like now, you can go get a masai bowl here in the United States, and people are putting like gummy worms on it, and you know condensed milk, and it's just a calorie bomb, and it's really you know nothing I would ever eat. So when I you know acai itself, unsweetened acai either get it like frozen as a puree, or you would get it in a freeze dried powder form. That is, I consume that every day. I, you know, some of the people I most admire consume that every day as a foundation to really their smoothie routines, right? Their smoothie and bowl routines. So, you know, every day I'm taking unsweetened acai, frozen. I'm using some type of nut milk or a coconut milk or or a coconut water, and then I'm layering on my protein, right? So I could either use vegan or animal protein. I usually I I like whey. I like high quality whey protein. I'm layering on avocado, so I'm getting even. More fats in there. I'm laying on a little bit of banana for the sweetness. You know, just a little bit of sweetness. You know, people put peanut butter in there or almond butter. You can throw in other adaptogens and other powders, so like maca powder or spirulina. It really allows you to customize your smoothie experience, right? And getting back to having a simple life, you know, I try to. I have like two or three go-to smoothie recipes that we do here at home every week, and and and those are the same two or three, right? So I'm not. I don't have 20. I don't have 10. I've got two or three, and we're alternating between those, right? Every day, and my goal of that is to get this foundation of healthy fats, antioxidants. I want to get like 4050, grams of protein for myself in there. I want to get some good fiber. You know, you can also. It's great with Greek yogurt, and and and and that for me again, it's taking. It's like a. It's a meal, right? And and it's and it's convenient and it's simple. And I'm knocking out a lot of this nutrition, I want to get into me. So it's very functional, easy, and simple practice that we have, and that's how you know acai should be consumed. And that's actually how it's consumed. If you get back to how it's being consumed in the Amazon, right? They're doing that too. They they have savory acai that's unsweetened, that's eaten like a porridge because it's fresh from the tree, and they're eating it with their rice, their beans, their fish, or their shrimp. You know, the Gracies use it as a training element, right, for their bodies. You know, nobody that they're not. It's not. You know, his. It's not. It's not a dessert, right? Yes. I mean, yeah, people have used it, right, to make a dessert, but that's not how I consume it. And it's okay to have that, right? But my age, I'm 50, and I everything I put in my body, I want it to be functional and healthy. So you know, for teenagers who have a lot of energy when eating acai bowl full of sugar, probably better than a lot of stuff. Yeah, you know,

Turo Virta: 33:34

most optimum problem for me.

Unknown: 33:35

It's it's not doesn't really apply to me anymore. Yeah, I hope that answered your question. Yeah,

Turo Virta: 33:39

no, absolutely, and I love those your example. I it makes me smile because I I have exactly similar habits with my smoothie every day, morning having my protein source, Greek yogurt, scoop of protein powder, and always banana seasonal fruits or berries or whatever. But and not making it. Those are always the main ingredients. Banana just for sweetness, but then everything else is seasonal, and I mix everything, and that is that's the way how I make sure I get my protein in, my fiber in my fruits per day, so I don't basically need to worry about it any more than the rest of the day. So how then about because you talked about as I and all different kind of forms, how it is. So, how can consumer identify a better asai product?

Unknown: 34:38

That's great. So, I would, you know, I personally look for unsweetened acai. That'll be, you know, clear. Usually, it's labeled as such, and then you want to turn around and look at the nutrition facts and make sure there's no sugars or carbohydrates because that's a sign of pure acai. I look for organic. Most acai is organic certified just because of the way it's naturally produced in the Amazon, but for me another element's fair trade. You know, the Amazon is a it's a wild place, right? And these families who harvest acai are living on a remote archipelago, and they can easily be exploited, right? That's one of the problems here in Brazil. So you know that's all of I look for a especially coffee banana for me. That's important fair trade. The human element regenerative also takes that into consideration. For example, Amazon's 100% fair trade, and that guarantees there's no exploitation going on, right? With the with labor, right, and the supply chain. And actually, you know, I'll just give an example of Sambazon. 1% of all the fruit we got. There's a fund that we provide, and that money goes back into the communities. We invest in schools and health outposts and different needs that they have because again they live on these remote islands. They don't have you know far away from health and education, but they're also wonderful. They're the stewards of the rainforest, right? And they recognize that this is you know they have an amazing, amazing life and amazing job, and we want to support them too, and and and make sure that they continue to prosper, right? Because you know there's a here you know we have this sense on getting back to our mission of the sustainable assay management of the Brazilian Amazon, but it's a different way to look at capitalism, right? There's two forms of capitalism. There's shareholder capitalism, where it's really just about the financial bottom line, right, and everything else is secondary to that. Then there's stakeholder capitalism, which is, you know, we're looking at the entire all the stakeholders within the value chain, right? From the consumer to the growers to the environment, and you know that's what our business model is based upon. And I'm I'm super excited because there's so many cool companies now that are that've been around and more and more that you know we've been around for almost 30 years and we've been inspiring new generations of entrepreneurs to build companies based on stakeholder capitalism right and and for me that's the future just like regenerative is the future of organic, and and and ultimately, right? Us, right? The our ourselves and our families, we can vote, right? We we in the capitalistic society, we have the power. We lots of times we don't feel like we have power, but we do. With our, we can vote with our dollar. We can vote when we go into the, and that's the most powerful. One of the most powerful elements in a capitalistic system. So, pay attention to what you eat. Right.

Turo Virta: 38:22

Oh yeah. Oh, that is so well said. So time is running out. I have a few closing questions, and was what we talked earlier a little bit to summarize for someone who wants to improve food quality but feels overwhelmed. What is the first change you would recommend?

Unknown: 38:45

Go little by little. Don't try to do everything at once. You know, look at go into your pantry and maybe find one item, one staple item, and and make a change that week. Let's take eggs for example. You know where your eggs coming from. You know, or take your milk, or take your butter, or you know, don't try to do everything at once. Yeah,

Turo Virta: 39:10

well said. What is then one label or question you wish every shopper understood?

Unknown: 39:22

I wish that they can understand the difference between, you know, who's actually behind, who is the company behind what they are buying when they're looking at a label, right? So that's very important. That's going to tell you a lot about the product that they're about to put into their body, so doing a little homework. You know, if you've been buying the same brand for a tomato sauce, for example, for your whole life, you can really find out really quickly. Go online and and find out who that is, and you know, you may have been, you may want to make a change, you may not, but I think it's worth looking into it.

Turo Virta: 40:09

Oh yeah, absolutely. That's a great, great tip, actually. Then where can listeners learn more about you and Sambazon?

Unknown: 40:18

Well, you can go to sambazon.com. We have our Instagram too, and that's at Sambazon. You know, I in Europe right now we've got there's some good distribution in the UK and Portugal and Spain. I'm not too sure about Italy, Turo, but yeah, there's great information. Yeah,

Turo Virta: 40:43

no, but I have actually my listeners are mostly from the US. Okay, yeah, even I'm located to

Unknown: 40:49

Olympic. Nice, yeah, and you know we're in over 30,000 grocery stores. So you go to the frozen fruit section of your local grocery store, and you are more than likely going to find a Sambazon on site there.

Turo Virta: 41:04

Awesome! Thank you so much. I really, really learned a lot from this episode, and definitely now know what Asa is. Honestly, I never tried it, but now you made me to inspire to try it. Look if it's somewhere here available, and definitely try it. So thank you so much for your time sharing your wisdom, and thank you.

Unknown: 41:28

Thank you, Turo. It's a pleasure.