Turo Virta: 1:08

Welcome back to the Fit Me Turo Fitness podcast. Many of us grew up hearing things like, "I need to lose weight. I was bad today, so I shouldn't eat dessert. I need to exercise because I ate too much. Or maybe we were told to clean up our plate in regards to diet or hurt adults around us constantly criticize their own bodies, and most parents don't want to pass those same messages on their children. But knowing what to say instead isn't always easy. My guest today is Dr. Whitney Casares, a board-certified pediatrician, author, and a founder of Modern Mummy Dog and raising body confident kids, she holds a master of public health in maternal and child health, and has spent her career helping families support both the physical and emotional health of children. Her book, which is just out, called "Raising Party Confident Kids, explores how parents can break the cycle of body shame and diet culture without ignoring health. Today we are talking about food, weight, exercise, body image, social media, and the everyday conversation that can shape a child's relationship with their body for years to come. Whitney, welcome to the podcast. And before we get into the practical side, could you tell us a little bit about your background and what led you to focus specifically on body confidence in children?

Unknown: 2:38

Absolutely. So I've been a pediatrician for over 15 years, and of course, you focus on the physical aspects of health as a pediatrician all the time, but a lot of times we think about disease states as pediatricians. You know, trying to prevent cancer, trying to make it so people live longer, heart disease, diabetes, things like that. And what I started noticing a lot in families is that parents are really concerned about the mental health aspects of their body, so of that body confidence piece, and that actually a lot of the ways that as doctors we talk to families about bodies were harming them. That we talked to families a ton about weight itself, about body mass index, which is kind of that measurement of obesity or overweight or underweight, and that we weren't focusing on the right things that were helping kids to feel really good in their body for an entire lifetime. And then I had my own kids as well. I have a almost 13 year old. I have a almost 10 year old, and the two of them, you know, have started going through puberty, one more than the other, and as they got older, I also saw their body shifting and changing. And I always consider myself someone who was a body positivity advocate. But when their body started changing, it brought back a lot of those old wounds of you know growing up in diet culture for myself, of my own parents saying like you know what are you eating or do you need to go on a diet or things like that. I remember I was running with my dad starting in junior high like as an effort to not gain too much weight later on and and so a lot of those old things started coming back and I felt like I kind of like I've gotten over diet culture I'm fine. I know all the information, and then when I have my own kids, it really hits. So I wrote this book, and I started thinking about this work as it relates to kind of maternal and child health. So how does what's happening inside a mom or inside a parent? How does that affect their kid? And really trying to help parents first grasp what are the issues that they're still struggling with, what are the influences that they don't even realize are happening for themselves, and what are these kind of secret fears that they have for their own kids that maybe they haven't named, like they don't want their kid to be bullied or they don't want their kid to feel bad about their body, and so what are they kind of projecting onto their child, and how can I help parents to really think through that, build some more awareness, and then also build habits for their kids that will make it so that they're healthy for a lifetime.

Turo Virta: 5:15

Yeah, because you use a lot of the term body confidence, and what does that actually mean to you?

Unknown: 5:25

Yeah, so I think body confidence is a very specific word that I like to use because it's different from body positivity. Body positivity is this idea of I love my body all the time. I feel great about my body. There's no room for any negativity at all, and to me that just is too fake. I live in the real world. I have bad body days where I feel terrible about my body. You know, I remember being a kid and having it be that I had zits on my face and that that didn't feel great. And so, to me, body confidence is more about what we do, even when we have a negative thought or. When we see an image that we don't like of ourselves, or when we don't feel so great, what do we do to help to still take care of ourselves, body and mind, so that we can move on from that point, but that we're not just brushing over

Turo Virta: 6:21

it? And then, like, why you think that so many adults still carry those difficult memories around food, weight, and their bodies from childhood.

Unknown: 6:32

I think a lot of it is because we never really well. First of all, diet culture still permeates everything. So I think that even though it maybe is dressed up in a different way, like wellness. You know, we talk about wellness now all the time, or we talk about longevity all the time. Those things are great, and it's a softer term. And maybe we don't have on our shows, you know, the same where we're saying like, "Hey, you're fat, you know, to somebody in the same way that we used to in the 80s or 90s. But we still have all of this messaging around us that says, "Hey, if you don't do this, then you're not enough. If you don't get the Botox, if you don't go on the GLP one, if you don't do whatever, then you're not as worthy as the next person. I think the other thing is just whatever happens in your childhood, it affects you for your whole life. Oh yeah, you know, I mean, I just watched the Michael Jackson movie, right? Like, like that guy, like he's like just affected. Doesn't matter if he still lives in Joe Jackson's house. He was going to be affected forever. And I think the same thing happens with us with diet culture. That you know, it's 2225, 30 long years of growing up having people talk about you need to go on a diet, you need to lose weight, or you better do this so that you, you know, are attracting the attracting a man, or that you know you look good on camera, or whatever. I think that those things, those messages that we received, that they stay with us forever.

Turo Virta: 7:59

Oh yeah, and there are so many. Like I, all what you say, I get so big smile. Like it's it's it's for me personally. I I was part of that clean the plate club. Like that was that was coming from my mom, and I she didn't even realize it. Like I we talked about it. Like now I'm now I was in my 40s, or end of 30s when I and I said that you know, mom, like I love you and everything, but you know that I struggle at age of 40 cleaning my plate, and it was like, and she was like shocked, like she didn't know that. Oh really? Like that I, she was thinking, are starting to think like that. Did I really say that? That oh yeah, that that it was like that. I had to clean my plate, you know, and using those like it was in 80s were those images from Africa like that, you know, there are people starving in Africa and that, and then like she started to think, and then you know probably that passed, her mom passed it, like my grandma passed it to her, like at the time my mom was kid, there was a actually war. There was a hunger, but that's not the case anymore. And then with the with my work, like I I have worked with so many people, and especially women over 40 who are who are who said that their mum have put them to diet at age of seven,

Unknown: 9:26

yeah,

Turo Virta: 9:26

and she have been dieting since age of seven all the time. That there is never there is she have never found the right diet, and she is all the time searching new solution, better solution, tried everything, but still struggling with her body. And it's it's just small things, and I don't think that there is not single parent or mum or dad who is who is thinking like that. You know, I do something bad or I impact for my kids. Not right. You don't write. You do the best you can with the with. But if you if you struggle yourself with your body confidence, as you say, I think it's it's very easy to pass those messages to your children.

Unknown: 10:11

Yes, I yes I think so too, and I can absolutely relate to that. I mean, really, until I was in my late 30s, I feel like I was constantly dieting, constantly trying to figure out some way, and and I agree with you. I think those messages around like clean your plate, but then at the same time, like telling someone clean your plate, but then in the next second, like you're getting fat. You know, like as a child, as a person, you don't know how to hold those two things together. And I think that particularly my parents' generation, our parents' generation, they did not understand. They just did not have the awareness that we do now about how that actually can create the opposite result that they were hoping for. So there is actually some studies that show that the more that we focus on weight for our kids, the more that we talk. Dieting for our kids, the more likely they are to be overweight, and it's because you're or to have an eating disorder. I mean, like one of the two, right, or both sometimes at the same time, because it basically makes it so that then you are like trying to control or trying to somehow kind of go the opposite way. So it's really really interesting in the literature.

Turo Virta: 11:25

Yeah, what then do actually children learn when parents criticize, for example, their own bodies?

Unknown: 11:34

I mean, our kids are always watching us and listening to us, and they're they're listening to what we or they're watching what we do and they're listening to what we say more than they're listening or like like paying attention to what we tell them, right? So the things that we're doing when we're not having this educational moment with our children are the things that I think actually matter the most. So they're learning from us when we look in the mirror and we pinch our stomach or we look at ourselves in a way that looks negative, they are learning when we wrap a towel around ourselves and say like,"Oh, I'm fat, or or even more subtly, because I think most parents kind of know not to do that at this point. They're looking at us and we say like,"Ah, like I shouldn't eat that, you know, "that I shouldn't have that. They're they're learning that their body is something that has to be controlled. They're learning that a body is not enough just as it is. They're learning that bodies are things that have to be fixed, as opposed to that bodies are there really to serve us to allow us to do all the things that we want to do. You know, I think the opposite message that we want to send our kids is wellness within your body means that you are able to run if you need to catch a missed flight. That you are able to you know enjoy the sunset in peace. That you are able to laugh and sing and dance. Like we wanted to be that our bodies are instruments for us, as opposed to it being just decoration for us.

Turo Virta: 13:14

Yeah, that's so well said, and it's I totally agree. And this is this topic. It's it's it became more personal for me because I just three weeks ago I became father. Obviously, my son. Thank you. My son is still a newborn, but I'm already thinking about what we will hear from us about food, exercise, and bodies. And if you could give to a new parent or two or three principles to keep in mind from the beginning, and what would they be?

Unknown: 13:48

I think this is really important because it does start from the very beginning. I would say the first principle is really take a breath, like focus on the long picture, the long goal, the big picture versus what's happening in a moment. So, in terms of your kid's body, in terms of what they eat, in terms of how they move, so it's very stressful for a parent, and you know this. If you have a three-week-old, like it's very stressful if your child doesn't eat, even for a newborn. You know, you're like, oh my gosh, please eat. I need you to survive. And there are some things that are like more urgent in the newborn period, but really, once you get past like six months or so, if a kid isn't eating a ton on one day, they're gonna eat more the next day. You know, if a kid doesn't like a vegetable on this day, if it keeps on being exposed to different foods, you know, over time, you know, like and Europeans, you guys do this much better than we do. Like it just being like that, a family meal is just part of things, you know. Like you're gonna see vegetables, you're gonna see fruits, you're gonna see like whole grain pastas, things like that. That that kids will become quote unquote like good eaters over time if we're not so stressed out. So I think that's that's like number one, and that actually being stressed out and being over controlling about what kids eat-that that usually again backfires. It makes it so that kids want to take back that control, and so they end up limiting their foods even more. Sometimes that can lead to even more picky eating. So taking a breath and saying, like, I'm going to look at the whole picture, at the whole week, at the whole day, at the whole year, as opposed to, I'm looking at this specific meal or this specific food. What is my kid doing? The second thing I would say from the very beginning is modeling movement as joy, modeling movement as like pleasure, and it doesn't have to mean that movement isn't hard. Like yesterday, I was in the living room and I was doing some yoga, and my daughter from upstairs, she she's coming downstairs and she goes, "Are you okay? Because I was like grunting, I think, as I was trying to get out of like a certain position, and they go,"Oh yeah, I'm just doing yoga, but it's not like she saw me like, "Oh, I hate this. This is the worst thing in the world." Doing yoga, she saw me doing a move that was like very difficult and that required a lot of like core strength for me to do. So it's difficult. Or same, like if I was like lifting weights and my kids saw me like, oh, you know, like getting through the moment. That's fine, but you don't want it to be that you're saying to your kid like, ah, I gotta go work out. I hate working out, but I have to because I ate this brownie yesterday, right? So that's what I mean in terms of movement being really joyful. You know, the other thing is if there's things you love to do, like I love to paddle board. We have a lake here that I can paddleboard on in the summer. I love to go salsa dancing with my husband. Like if there are things like that that are about movement for your child, that's so good, just to model, even for your newborn baby. You know, to dance around the kitchen with your newborn baby, like that's the way that we make movement something that's not about punishment. And then the third thing I would say is teaching our kids body literacy from as young an age as possible. So body literacy is teaching our kids what our bodies do for us. So as a young baby, if you are feeding your child a carrot, you can say like, "Oh, look these yummy carrots! They're so orange and beautiful, and like they grew in the ground, and they actually help our eyes to see really well, right? Or you know, even like a if you're eating a steak, right? Like, oh, the like the fat on the steak it helps my body to have extra energy when I haven't eaten for a long time. Oh, it's so like and it's so delicious. I love it. You know, and the iron in the steak it helps me to have my red blood cells. That means I can get oxygen, and it helps my brain to think. Like so, teaching your children over time what foods do for us makes it so that different foods are not like this is a bad food or this is a good food. More like this is what this food does for me. And I strongly believe there like there isn't like a bad bad food, but like certain foods obviously do more for our body than other foods. Like a steak does more for our body than a skittle. You know, a broccoli does more for our body than like a fried, you know, potato. Right? Like, like there are different things that it does. But you could even say for the foods that are more just like fun foods, like oh, these skittles are so fun to eat because they're different colors and they make it so the movie feels even more like exciting to watch. This like that's fine, you know what I mean. But you can also say, but we can't eat Skittles like all day every day, just like we can't eat steak all day every day because we need different foods to do different things for our bodies.

Turo Virta: 18:43

But you would never never say if I understood correctly, you would never call foods or describe foods like a good or bad, or you would say I don't,

Unknown: 18:53

I don't. I mean, I am honest with my kids about if there's a food that's like artificial everything. I will say to my kids now that they're older, I didn't harp on this when they were younger. I just didn't have those foods around, but I will say to my kid, like,"Hey, listen, that is a food that they put like a bunch of artificial stuff in. I think we can find a version of that that probably has stuff that's even more helpful to our body. You know what I mean? So I will say that, but I never am like that's a forbidden fruit food, you know. Like this is something that's forbidden in our family because I know kids. I'm a pediatrician. I know that my kid is then gonna run out and get that.

Turo Virta: 19:36

Yeah, yeah,

Unknown: 19:37

right, yeah. Because they they're they're like, oh, like sounds good. I'll go get that right now. You know, as soon as they have the chance to get it on their own.

Turo Virta: 19:45

Oh yeah, no, it's that it makes so much sense. That's what I I was thinking too. It's more like leading with an example, and and instead of like, because you know it better than I do at this point, but kids at some point they don't listen to you anymore. They are looking what you are doing and copying it, or or then if you something is forbidden, it becomes interesting, and that's that's then it's matter of time before they try and want to have it more, and because it's it's that's how things are going.

Unknown: 20:18

Yeah, yeah, I think that's true. I mean, even things like you know in the U.S. like of course, like as as a pediatrician, I don't smoke cigarettes, but my kids had asked me, like, "Hey, have you ever had a cigarette? And I'm honest with them, like, "Yeah, I have. Like after a concert, I have before. I'm like, you know, I'm gonna be honest with you. It kind of made me want to like gag because I didn't like the flavor of it and like felt bad in my lungs. Oh well, why would you do that? You know, it was like a social thing, and I didn't even like really think about it, but it's something that I don't do all the time because it has a lot of artificial things in it, and I don't want that in my body. Like, but but I think that lessens the feeling of like, ooh, there's this thing out there, and mom's never even done it. You know what I mean, like. I want it to be to my kids like, yeah. I tried it one time and it wasn't that great.

Turo Virta: 21:10

Yeah, you know. Yeah, no, no. It's it's because it's I it it came came to my mind old story. Like I don't, I can't remember how old I how old I was. I had one brother who is a one and a half years younger than me, but we were. I think probably we have been like something like 12, 1314, something like that, and I remember we were in in a summer house. There was our uncle, and they were smoking, and then my brother brother was asking like that. You know why you are smoking, and that could we smoke also? And then like of course my our parents ever like that? No, no, you are not smoking. Then my uncle said, "Of course, you have have you ever you have never tried it? And my brother said,"No, I never tried it. And he said, "No, come here, and take that now. I I let you try now first time. That here is secret, and take as much air in as you can first time. And he was doing it, and then he was like sucking it in, like, and then of course you you can you can imagine reaction like he was coughing and almost puking, and he said that since that he never ever tried a cigarette before or after that. So I don't know if it's that something what to recommend, but on the other hand, like you know, if it's not, it was not forbidden. Like my parents, I know they would never allow us to try a cigarette. But it was my uncle and I, at least for my brother and for me too. I I never smoked in my my life when I was younger, maybe occasionally, but never like I was never smoked when I went out or something like that, but never never smoked. So, but my brother said that that was the only experience he had with cigarettes.

Unknown: 22:53

Yeah, I mean, I won't sit here as a pediatrician and say, "Hey, you should tell your kids here try a cigarette. But, but I think that I think the the bigger point is probably just about this idea of demystifying things, having it be that it's not like oh yeah it's this forbidden food or no never do that you know I think just saying like oh yeah or like I I always ask my kids too I think this is like a good parenting thing just like oh well why do you think people do that why do you think that people even smoke or why do you think people love to have like you know what's a food thing? Like, why do you think people love fried foods? Like, oh, people love fried foods because a lot of times, or love chips, you know, that are made in a bag and they come to you. Oh, people a lot of times love the chips because actually, the companies that make them, they'll put stuff in it that makes it so it like tastes even better than like what would be natural, you know? Like, just to explain what's going on for kids. I'm not a big like anti ultra processed foods person, no seed oil. I like I don't I don't get into that, but but I will for my kids try to explain. Oh, there are ways that people make money off of us based off things that they do to things that they sell us, right? I think that's helpful for kids. Then they feel like they're kind of in on it.

Turo Virta: 24:09

Yeah. So, what is then? What do you would say when your child is telling you that I'm fat?

Unknown: 24:20

Yeah. I. So, what? Here's first what I don't do, and it's really hard because I think as a parent, when someone says, "I think when your child says, 'I'm fat, or do you think I'm fat? Your first reaction is to protect them because you know what being fat means to you. You know that being fat has a negative connotation to you. That you're at least for me. I think for the majority of people, right? Even though we're trying to change that in the world and have it not be like a big thing, for me, if if I was thinking, "Oh, I'm fat, it's a negative thing. So my initial response in my own head is to be like, "Oh no, you're not fat. You're so pretty. Oh, you're you know you don't know no no no no no you know, that's probably the wrong thing to do. In fact, it is the wrong thing to do because, for a couple reasons. One, it makes it so that fat is a bad thing. It makes it like skinny's good, fat's bad, and I don't want that for my child. I want it to be that size is not their number one thought that's running through their head because I know that size running through my head for my young adult life made it so that I didn't have room for much else. That that's what I was thinking about a lot of the time. So I want to remove that from my child. Also, I know that if I just brush over it and say no, you're not, or why would you ever say that? That it doesn't leave room to get to actually the deeper thing that's going on for my child.

Turo Virta: 25:52

A

Unknown: 25:52

lot of times, the reason that a child might say that is because someone made a bad comment to them, or because they don't like how they looked in something, or because they watched something, and so that's actually what I say. I say, like, oh, what made you? What makes you say that? Why? Why are you saying that today? Then you could get at kind of the root cause. What's the thing that's going on for your child? You know, are they feeling bad because they have friends that all look smaller than them? Are they feeling? Are they having a bunch of thoughts in their head about constantly thinking about food and constantly thinking about body habits. So, the response is actually like different than one might think. It's it's to not it's not to reassure right away. It's actually to get at what are the deeper things that might be happening for my child. Why are they asking me this question in the first place?

Turo Virta: 26:45

Yeah, that's so. I that's so good answer. I because I it's it's I think most of us would ignore it and or say that no you are it's not true. Right. But like like you said that it's what child understands from that answer is that okay maybe my mom is lying to me or not telling the truth that he just she just want to be a nice mom and but I know that my friend is telling that I'm fat, or or in the school they call me fat. So something is going on, and and it's it's a if I'm if if I'm fat, there are three other people telling me I'm fat. That there is something bad in me, or I'm I'm not. It's it's it's not good to be a fat. So I love to dance here. So, how do you then address a child's health without making their body the problem?

Unknown: 27:37

Right. So this is where I differ. I think from a lot of people that talk about body positivity or body confidence. So we have these two extreme camps. We have the diet culture people, you know, who are talking about like here's how you're going to lose weight, here's how you're going to keep yourself looking snatched, all of that, and then you have the people over here that are like, all bodies are good bodies, it doesn't matter, you know, eat whatever you want, it's good, doesn't matter. I know as a clinician, as a doctor, that actually extremes of body habitus are associated with different disease states. I know that being obese is associated with things like hip dysplasia, with having problems with your hip where you have lips, and it can cause like major issues. I know that obesity, major obesity. I'm not talking about like most Americans. I'm talking about like you know 600 pounds. That that is associated with, of course, with things like higher blood pressure. You know, you don't have as much room for your organs, heart disease, all of those things. I also know that being severely underweight is a problem. That you know that being someone who is anorexic and that you are having constipation, that you can have heart troubles in that regard. Like there's lots of things that happen at extremes. So my goal as a clinician, as a doctor, as a pediatrician is really to

watch kids and see: 29:03

Are we going to extremes quickly? If that's happening, that's a red flag to me in either direction. It doesn't matter to me what direction it is. It's a it's a red flag. Now I do not take weight as though the only piece of information or data that I'm using to say there's a problem. So if I see that there's a major swing that's happening in one direction or another, then my next thing is to get some more some more information, some more data points. Is blood pressure okay? Is our heart rate okay? How's our cholesterol doing? Also, what's happening from a mental health standpoint? Hey, how are things going at school? Hey, how are things going with your friends? Hey, how are you feeling about yourself? How are you feeling about food? How are you feeling about your body? And then it's also a moment to look at habits. You know, are you skipping meals for the kid who's super underweight? Hey, do you find that when you feel really sad that eating is the one thing that you're doing for maybe the kid who is is getting severely obese? Right. So looking more at like the entire picture of health, the one thing that I do in clinic when I'm seeing patients, I do not focus on the weight itself with kids. With a parent, I will show them a growth curve and say, "Hey, look, this is where your kid was. This is where they are now. You know, they lost 20 pounds. This is a big problem. Or they gained 20 pounds in a month. This is a big problem, but with the child, I really am focused more on how are you doing inside yourself. What are the activities you're doing? What's your overall health? And then with the parent, I would talk more about okay, hey, listen, like do we need to maybe do a consult to a cardiologist or to a dietitian or whatever, so really separating out for a child what's happening in terms of how they look, in terms of their body size, from what's actually happening with their true health, and using their weight as just one data point.

Turo Virta: 31:03

Yeah, yeah, that's it's so important to have like what. I believe many many adults, like especially I see from my clients, especially women, they use only weight as a data point and nothing else like pictures, strength, or or tape measurements, and it's just the weight. And I think that's it's not it's it's pretty good indicator, but it shouldn't be the only indicator how you measure or remove your progress. So,

Unknown: 31:32

yeah, I mean, I'm I'm hoping that one day we'll replace BMI with like you know central fat adiposity. Like we'll we'll look at things like your you know abdominal circumference. We'll look at things like we'll get more specific because you're absolutely right, right? Like your weight, your BMI, it doesn't take into account your muscle

Turo Virta: 31:51

mass. It

Unknown: 31:51

doesn't take into account like your ethnicity. It doesn't take into account like what's happening with your hormones. Like it doesn't take into account any of that. So we need better information, and I think that's a point of advocacy for me. Is really like for these families being able to say something that's more specific to them than just BMI because BMI is just based off you know white men unfortunately. Absolutely.

Turo Virta: 32:19

So then you mentioned all a little bit about emotional eating, but can in your opinion parents unintentionally plant the seeds of emotional eating.

Unknown: 32:32

Oh, absolutely! I think we cannot separate our emotions from our eating habits. You know, eating is oftentimes in a good way about emotions. It's about celebrations. It's about family. It's about culture. It can be about love. It can bring back, you know, your heritage. Like I think about, like you know, my husband making tamales with his grandma. Like, like it can be so many great things emotionally. Overeating can also be, though, a way that we cope when we are not feeling good, and especially if we're eating a lot of highly processed foods because they are designed at a certain taste point, inflection point, to make us feel even better when we eat them. So, higher sugar, higher salt, or higher fat content. I. I think that actually eating when you're having a terrible day can be a great emotional coping strategy. Awesome! I love to have a brownie when I'm feeling like super sad. It just can't be our only coping strategy. It can't be the only thing we do. Sometimes a run is going to be better for you. Sometimes you know reading a book is going to be better for you. Sometimes practicing some self compassion, saying like, "Hey, what are my feelings right now? What am I dealing with? Why do I feel so sad? I think the the place to catch yourself is when I am in a bad spot. Is eating my go-to is that the thing that I do every single time is I eat, and also if when I feel sad I eat, does it make me feel better or does it actually make me feel worse? If it's like I'm having half a brownie and now I feel better, oh you know, hey, maybe I was low blood sugar. Amazing! I've you know, I feel better right now. Great, but if after you're if you feel sad and then you eat and then afterward you're like, oh man, now I feel worse about myself, then that's not a good coping strategy. Good coping strategies make you feel better after you do

Turo Virta: 34:46

that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's it's right. I I think it's what I what I learned from habits. It's with an emotional eating. Is that that it's not actually eating itself. It's that intention, and it doesn't it doesn't matter if that actually helps already to reduce those unwanted feeling feelings or uncomfortable feelings, it's that intention, or it doesn't tell that you know you have to eat whole everything what you have in your in your poultry or or in a in a freezer. So it's just a little bit, or or if you are, I think it's it's every person is different, but it's it's what actually helps that it's it's that it's that intention that you don't actually need to even do that thing that and it's already that urge is already gone.

Unknown: 35:37

Yes, absolutely. I mean, I can tell when I'm emotionally eating in an unhealthy way. I can tell because what happens is it's almost like in my mind, my brain is go like, oh, I'm so like mad or I'm so sad. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna eat this whole thing of ice cream. It's like it's like my brain is saying like, like ah, you know, screw you to everyone. Like I'm doing this. It's it's a different kind of eating. It's this like ravenous eating that's happening that is about like control or about like I'm getting back at life or something. You know, you can tell when you're doing it that it is not in a way that's about the pleasure of food or enjoying your food. That it's about something outside yourself. You can tell it while you're doing

Turo Virta: 36:27

it, yeah, yeah. Then, what about then exercise? How should we talk about exercise without connecting it to burning calories?

Unknown: 36:38

Yeah, I think this is really about bringing some awareness back to yourself about your why, I think. I mean, everything comes back to intention, always, right? I think in in almost every single thing that we do, but I think it's about why. Is it? Am I doing this because I feel like exercise is actually like a punishment that I deserve? Which I know feels weird to say, but I think that's absolutely true. Like, like if I eat something quote unquote bad, then I exercise so I can exercise it away, or as a way to like mitigate what I ate. Is is that why I'm exercising? If that's the case, that's not healthy exercise, right? Am I doing it For prevention, like for example, like in my 40s, I know that I need to lift weights so that I don't have osteoporosis as I'm older, so I don't have bone problems. I also can tell that, like, gosh, I used to be able to like lift a desk, and like now I can't do it. Like, I don't like that. Like, I want to be able to be strong. Like I want to be able to lift a suitcase up, right? So, if you're exercising for that reason, that's a great reason to exercise for stress reduction, like for that like burn of cardio that allows you to think more clearly in the day because you've kind of like gotten it out. Those are great exercise intentions. If the intention is, if I don't do this, I'm bad. If I don't do this, I can't eat the way I want to. If I don't do this, I will get fat. Those are bad. Those are those are unhelpful. Not bad. Those are unhelpful ways to look at exercise. And so, if you find yourself doing that all the time, that's a moment to stop and think and say, "Do I need to intentionally not do this for a while, so I can break this cycle in my head, and instead choose some other type of movement that is just about joy for a

Turo Virta: 38:43

while? Yeah, yeah, and I was saying this is this is what I actually wanted to hear because it's with me when I work with, especially with the women. There are so many like who are like if they happen to track their calories or or that exercise is somehow connected. That you know I work out today, so I deserve. I can have now desert or something. I can have. I think that I think it's the first thing what I tell when somebody starting with me and start to, which I think it's at least some point in their life. It's good to become a little bit more aware what you are eating, and if you happen to do like one week tracking calories, but the first thing what I tell that do not exercise track your exercise calories. That doesn't matter. It doesn't make any difference, and it's just to learn yourself that if you want to have your cookie or dessert, go for it. But you don't need to exercise for that, or you don't deserve cake by doing exercise or workout. So you can you can have it if you want it, but it's it should not be there and thinking like that. Okay, I'm gonna eat now more because I exercised and like my tracking app is showing that I have burned now 1000 calories with exercise, so I can eat 1000 calories more. No, you can't actually. That or right? Yeah. No.

Unknown: 40:02

I mean, I think we were all taught. I don't know if this is true in Italy too, but definitely in the U.S. Right, like like calories in, calories out. Yeah, that's not true. Like the your metabolism makes a huge amount of difference. Your muscle mass that you have makes a huge amount of difference as to how you utilize the food that's coming in. You know, there's a huge study around sleep for women, especially of like if you're not getting adequate sleep and you're trying to lose weight. Which, by the way, I think sometimes trying to lose weight is not a bad thing at all. Like that's the other difference I think from me and a lot of like body positivity people. I'm like, sure, if you're trying to lose weight for the right reasons, 100% If you are not sleeping adequately, then it is like you have to work like one and a half times harder

Turo Virta: 40:56

to

Unknown: 40:57

actually lose weight, right? So there's all these different factors, which is why we can't say just like calories in, calories out. Oh, I did a workout and I burned 1000 calories. Okay, great. Now I can have 1000 calorie piece of cake. It's not like that.

Turo Virta: 41:09

No, no. It's it's like it's of course those. There is not like those tracking apps. They are only estimates. It depending on what kind of information. Like the only way how to know how your body works is pick up one number and go for that and see if you get results good. If not, then maybe it's time to adjust something. It's either calories in or calories out. But and I think that especially with those devices, like all these tracking devices, I think I saw a study, was interesting study. They are overestimating. I think 27 to 97% on average those calories you burn, so you can't really count if your sport watch is telling that you have burned 500 calories. True, it might be that it's 200 or 250. So it's overestimating a lot. So don't, and it's just an example that you don't, you shouldn't be adding your calories so that if you happen to track calories, remove those burnt calories and don't focus on them.

Unknown: 42:15

Right.

Turo Virta: 42:16

But then, what about then? How do we handle grandparents or relatives commenting on a child's weight?

Unknown: 42:26

Yeah. So okay. Again, my advice here will be different, probably than what other people might think that it would be. I don't think you should try to fix the grandparents. I don't think you should try to correct them. I don't think you should try to make it so that they come into the modern age, unless they are asking you to like help me, you know. If they say like, what should I say? Then of course, like you teach them. But I really think that a lot of the grandparents, it's like they already have their set ways; they're too far gone. Like I'm not trying to save the grandparents. I'm trying to save you and your child. So I really think that ignoring is a huge part of dealing with grandparents. Of saying like, okay, I do think though you can teach your kids ways to like protect your family environment when you're in it. So if a grandma makes an off comment about her own weight around her own body, we don't need to be like oh you know you know, you're, you know, okay. What's your underlying reason why you think you're fat? Why would you say that? Like, we don't need to do that, but we can say things like, "Hey, remember, we don't really talk about fat and weight and stuff like that. Like, you can say something like that. I think that's incredibly helpful for your kids to have you model that in front of them, for sure. If they say something negative about you or about your child in front of your child, that is a moment to say like, no, no, no, no, no, we don't do that. Before kids see grandparents as well, you can always give them a little pep talk about, hey, you know, Nana, she grew up in a time that was very different than ours. There was a lot of focus on weight and on size. So if she says stuff, just know she just doesn't know as much as like we do about it. So gotta give her a little grace, right? You can also arm your kids with like funny things to say back. So my kids know that when my mom talks about her weight, that they are absolutely welcome to say like, "Up, uh oh, the diet culture police is gonna get you. You know, like they say stuff like that to my mom all the time, and then my mom's like rolls her eyes, but you know she stops it. You know, or like like they will say like you know we don't talk about that here, or like I want to tell my mom on you that you're talking about bodies again. Like they they know how to kind of make it a little flippant without making it this direct affrontive thing against their grandparent. So that's my best advice. And then afterward, if the grandparent does say something to your child, being very specific with your child and intentional afterward, like debriefing. Hey, how'd that make you feel? Did it bother you? A lot of times, you'll find with the grandparent comments though that the kids will just go, "Oh yeah, they're so that's so stupid. Why would they say that? You know what I mean? In the same way that grandparents talk about discipline, you know, in a totally different way than we do, or sometimes they make racist comments, like that you have to just be like, I don't know, old people. You know what I mean? Like this is kind of what I do with my kids afterward, and it works really well because it helps to solidify this is the value that your grandparent had. They're just not quite as educated or woke about this. This is what we think in our family.

Turo Virta: 45:47

So, what about then if mother wants to lose weight herself, and how to do that without passing diet culture to her child, like you mentioned already a little bit, but you have anything else to add on?

Unknown: 46:01

Yeah. Yes, I I think um you know there are. A lot of people, a lot of reasons why people want to lose weight, and it's fine. Like if, like for for example, I had a moment after I had had both of my kids, I'd been working, not sleeping, working too hard, stressed out, and I gained like a significant amount of weight, and I wanted to lose it. And it's not because honestly I wanted to like succumb to diet culture. I just did not like the idea of every other day I have to buy new clothes. Like I don't want to do that. I want to fit into the clothes that I purchased and that I bought, and I want to feel good and not have sleep apnea and have energy and all those things. So I don't think it's bad to lose weight, I think when you're talking with your kids about it, first of all, I would not mention to your kids that you're trying to lose weight. I would not. I would let it be that they see you losing weight, but I wouldn't be talking about it like outright. Like, oh, I'm I'm on my weight loss journey. Like, they don't need to hear that. When you're, if your kids mention it to you, I would say, like, yeah, I, you know, found that I was having some pain in my knees. I found that I was having some difficulty with sleeping, and so I'm trying to actually just take care of my body in a way that will make it so it lasts a lot longer, and so I can enjoy being in my body more. That's what I would leave it at. Just focus on the health pieces, yeah, as opposed to, oh yeah, I love it! Don't I look so amazing in this new top? Like your kids don't need to hear that. Focus on that.

Turo Virta: 47:31

That's so good. That's so good. So, last

question: 47:34

What is one thing parents who are listening now can start doing differently today? If you could give only one tip,

Unknown: 47:45

I think the biggest thing is to give yourself just a few minutes in the day to just think about what's your intention or what's your family value around bodies and around body confidence for yourself and for your kids. Like when your child is 3040, how do you want them to feel about their body? I want them to feel strong. I want them to feel capable. I don't want them to think about their body 24/7. Just you don't even have to make a plan for what you're going to do, but just set that intention in your mind. You know, for a couple times this week, and that will help you when these tough moments come up. Then you can make a decision. Okay, yes, I know that my programming, my internal programming, is to talk, use some diet culture talk, or to say something about that's a bad food, or I now I got to like go to the to gym and work off this piece of cake. But if you have that in your head, it will help you in those tough moments when you're feeling critical of yourself or you fall back into diet culture to reframe things and to think about it a different way for your kids.

Turo Virta: 48:55

That's so good. Where can listeners find your work and learn more about raising body confident kids books?

Unknown: 49:03

Yes. So my the book is available wherever books are sold. Amazon is the easiest place, but it's available everywhere. And then you can also go to my website, raisingbodyconfidentkids.com, and there's a whole book section. There's also a blog. It leads back to my own podcast, so you can listen to me talk about this stuff at length. I have resources on there, so that's the best place. And then on social, I'm at Modern Mommy Doc for really even more zoomed out information about how do you create a little more bandwidth in your life, so that way you can raise body confident kids. And then I'm also at raising body confident kids.

Turo Virta: 49:46

Thank you so much, Whitney. I really, really enjoyed this conversation. And if you did also, please leave a five-star rating. Go to check because those five-star ratings-they are helping. And definitely, if you got value from this episode, quote it by Whitney's brand new book. It's out september 1. This episode is out on september 3, so it's already there. So go to support her. I think from value what you got already from this conversation, you can't imagine what kind of value you will find from that book. So go to check it out, and thank you so much for listening.

Unknown: 50:24

Thank you for having me.