So today's conversation is something about that many women know very well, standing in the kitchen, opening the pantry, putting your hand in the cheap bag, not because you are really hungry, but because you are tired, overwhelmed, emotionally full, maybe even a little disconnected from yourself, and then later you blame yourself. You say, Why do I have no willpower? Why can't I control myself? Why do I keep doing this? But what if emotional eating is not the real problem? What if it's a signal, a signal that you have been putting yourself last for too long, a signal that you are tired of carrying everything, a signal that food has become the easiest place to disappear for a moment. That's why I'm excited for today's guest, Sarah Stansbury. Sarah is a writer, life coach, and the founder of How to Blow Up Your Life. Her work focuses on helping women understand the emotional patterns underneath their behavior, especially people-pleasing self-abadonement, and the deeper stories like that keep smart, capable women stuck. Sarah also brings her own story into this conversation. At one point, she found herself 52 pounds overweight, with three babies, a life that looked fine from the outside, and a daily habit of standing in the pantry with her hand in the chip bag, where Wensie felt overwhelmed over time through deeper emotional work, walking, running, strength training and rebuilding self trust, she found her way back to herself. In this episode, we talk about emotional eating, self abandonement, people pleasing, what it looks like when women put everyone else first, and how to start coming back to yourself one step at a time. So, if you have ever felt food is where you go when you are overwhelmed. This conversation is for you. So, let's get into it. So, Sarah, before we go into the deeper topic, first of all, I'm so excited to hear your story, learn from you, but so could you share a little bit about who you are and what led you to this work. Oh, absolutely. Well, first of all, I want to say thank you, Toro, for having me on the show. I just.. I love your podcast, and I love the work that you do around fitness. I think it's so important that we put our bodies as a priority, and especially as women, as busy and sometimes overburdened women, we put ourselves last, which is the place where I found myself all of those years ago, probably almost 20 years ago now, when I was much younger, and like you said in the intro, had three babies and a life that looked fantastic on the outside, and virtually no coping skills for my emotional patterns, the emotional eating, of course, the pregnancies, you know, combined with the emotional eating caused the weight gain, and also, you know, not understanding that I needed to prioritize myself, or even at that point that that was even an option for me. I was putting everybody else's needs before my own, and I didn't really, honestly, I didn't really think it was okay to even have needs or make a plan in my day to prioritize exercise, to prioritize eating well. I was too busy, you know, getting the mac and cheese ready for the kids, and you know, whatever else you do for that, so you know, I really, it, I can remember kind of coming out of a daze one night, and I feel like this is awareness, right, is the first, is really the first step in making any real change in your life, right? So I can remember kind of waking up emotionally, you know, it was like nine or 10 o'clock at night, standing in the pantry, and I think I've maybe been there for maybe 1015, minutes, I don't know how long I'd been there, maybe it was two minutes, maybe. Who knows, but just standing there with my hand in the chip bag, thinking, how long have I been standing here, and why am I standing here, like doing this, you know, and of course I was, I was so. Overwhelmed, I didn't. I wasn't connected to myself fully. I didn't understand any kind of need that I might have. I was even unaware that I even had any needs, and what I learned after, started after I began evaluating, just kind of maybe getting curious as to, huh, wonder why I'm doing this, like, what's really going on here. Of course, when I pulled those threads out a little bit and started doing the more difficult work of what was driving my behavior, I realized what I was doing was really numbing, right. We numb with so many different agents. Food is a very, very easy one. Food is easy because you eat it, you do it every day, you have to eat, right? Yeah, you, you sit in. I was reading your articles, and you said in some of them that you, you wasn't, that you said that I wasn't hungry, I was disappearing. What did you mean by that? Right, so it's a part of like the numbing and self-abandonment piece. I just.. I felt so uncomfortable in my body. I didn't like the way I was feeling. Does that make sense? I didn't.. I didn't like the way I was feeling at that point in my life. I was giving my agency over to everyone and everything, and if you read my work and know my story, and go back, like at that point I was in a very unhealthy marriage. I had a lot of unhealthy relationships in my life. I had a lot of relationships that required required me to abandon myself in order to be and remain in that relationship, including, you know, core relationships in my life, and so what ends up happening when you're in a situation like that, and you, you feel almost like you're trapped, if that makes sense, because you don't want to not be in these relationships, because the way you've been conditioned your whole life is that these relationships are primary, they're the most important, you should be a good wife, you should be a good mother, you should be a good daughter, you should be a good friend, and whatever good looks like to you, you either play into the conditioning that that you were raised in, or that you understood from your family, or your society or your community or whatever, but you're not being true to yourself, and so when I say I was disappearing, I used food basically to sit, because there's like a, there's a con, there was a conflict going on inside of me, if that makes sense. There's a conflict. There was how I really felt and how I thought I was supposed to feel, and then the guilt and the shame that went in between those two, so that I didn't have to feel that guilt and shame, or I didn't have to acknowledge how I really felt, because acknowledging how I really felt meant that I would need to come to terms with those feelings inside of me, and it might, it could cause me to make some really hard decisions. Yeah, yeah, if I came to terms with that. Yeah, were you at the time thinking like, did you probably you didn't know these things, I assume you learned them later in life, like at the time, if you do, you remember, was it, were you thinking that it was a full problem, or were you playing in yourself that you didn't have willpower for that problem, or overeating, I blame myself, because that was how I dealt with everything. I mean, I dealt with all of my problems in my life that way. I blame myself, and I felt like it was a moral failing. And it's funny, I didn't feel like it was a moral failing eating the chips, I felt like it was a moral failing for the weight that I put on. The fact that I couldn't get slim again, that it was an effort, like a monumental effort to lose the weight to every time I missed a workout, every time. Oh, you know, I'd eat a brownie, because I couldn't just eat a brownie, right? I eat the pan of brownies. Yeah, so it's a little bit different. I'd make a thing of brownies, and I'd eat the whole thing of brownies, and it really.. I felt like it was a moral failing, and you know, we do that. This is what I've learned, and you're right. At in the moment, as I was discovering those things, I didn't understand exactly what was really going on underneath, but I would, you get into a shame cycle of you eat the food, and then you feel really bad about yourself, and then and then you say okay, well, I'm not going to eat the food anymore, you know, or whatever, and then and then until the next time you feel overwhelmed, stressed, whatever, and then you eat the food, and then you feel really bad about yourself, so you may have a few weeks there where you're good, you know, quote unquote good, which you know I've learned since there's I believe there's no good foods or bad foods, really. Moderation is, you know, what makes you feel good, what's making, what's giving you energy, kind of a thing. So I did, I felt so much shame and guilt about what I was doing in the pattern that I was in, and really that I couldn't lose it, was really all about the weight, you know, because society puts so much pressure on how women's bodies look, yeah, and I found I found that very difficult, and I believe, like, what I hear and see, like that, so many women, they are really obsessed with the with the scale, and that number, usually it's coming from either you remember from your 20s or earlier in your life, you weighted that amount, and or you were fitting into that, your favorite dress or pants, what you still might have in your closet, and then you have that obsession that you need to get back into that exact same number, even though life, your situation is, you are older, your situation is totally different than it was in the past, but that is like, I think you are definitely not alone with this cycle, but was there was there a moment, or when did you start to realizing that eating wasn't the real problem, but it was more like a signal, right? It was, it was definitely a signal. I think you know what's funny is that I don't even think that I would have, I wouldn't even have said that eating was my biggest problem. You know what I'm saying. It wasn't until I got down to some other layers that I was like, oh, and I'm also eating, you know, I'm doing this to feel better, too. I called myself, so, so, just so you know, I went to other things in my life, right? We're not, we're not going well. The, the marriage was not going well. We had issues in our finances, we had issues. I was having so much overwhelm, and just being a mother, and I didn't like the woman that I was presenting, you know, or becoming, or not really becoming the version of myself that was showing up more often than not was not somebody I was really proud of. If that makes sense. I didn't really love her, and I don't mean in the physical sense, I mean, like, in, like, how I, how I dealt with my children, how I dealt with the people that were important to me in my life, kind of a thing. And so I started really taking a very hard look at, you know, what was really going on with me, and so I started therapy, which was a very important journey for me. I did start therapy. I began kind of looking at my core relationships, understanding like where I fit into them, how I fit into them, what coping mechanisms that I had learned from from my family of origin and from society and everything like that in this whole thing in this whole process for me I actually got sober because that was something that was important for me to do and what I realized during that time that I was quitting alcohol, especially, was that I, I called myself not, I don't believe I was an addict, but I was an equal opportunity medicator, if that makes sense, that's what I called myself, like I would drink, drink some drink enough until that got. Scary, and then I would eat a lot until that got scary, and then I would shop, and then I would watch TV, and I would just kind of go through these agents of numbing myself, so that I could check out and not feel my real feelings about things, and the problem with that, of course, is that you know your feelings are not your enemy. Your feelings are are a light post into really connecting with yourself, and when you numb your feelings, first of all, you numb the bad feelings and the good feelings, so you kind of walk around like in a zombie state a little bit, and then also the feelings, if when the more you disconnect from your feelings, the more you disconnect from your true self, yeah, and is this is this what you just said, what you would define self abandonement, or would you add something else to I think it definitely, I mean, it has a lot to do with denying your feelings, but it also has to do with denying your needs and your wants, and at the core of it, I think it's really a value issue, as women, sometimes society depends on your age. I feel like, as societies, we change and morph and grow, but you know, a lot of times society doesn't value women outside of what they can do for men, a lot of times you know your family doesn't value women, or whatever, the people around you, and so I think that there's like, there's like a sometimes a global, depending upon, you know, your situation, you know, there is a there's a global devaluation, and then also there could be a personal devaluation, and so you learn pretty early to tamp your needs to make sure that you know you're not creating a problem with having needs, wants, desires, and, and I think, as women, too, especially mothers, because you know your children, you have to put your children's needs first. I mean, that's just how it is if you have children, right? So that just kind of goes with it as a nurturer, but it doesn't mean that you abandon or ignore all of your needs, wants, and desires just because you're a mother, you know, you may need to put them on the back burner for a season, or, you know, find another way to get those needs met, but I think that I really had a belief system that my needs weren't important, and that they didn't really deserve to be met, and because of that I intrinsically tied that to my self-worth, that I wasn't important, and, and so really, that was really at the core of all of it, and why, why you think I know you, you are not the only one, I know so many in my coaching, so many women, why you, who are putting everyone else and they in front of themselves, and why you think that so many women are good at taking care of everyone else, but struggle to take care of themselves, isn't that a big question? Right. So, so here's the deal, and, and, and, and this is the absolute truth, which I will always tell, I will always speak my truth, and I say this to my clients in a loving way. Part of it is conditioning, right, of, of like, we're kind of told, you know, in order to be a good wife, mother, sister, you know, daughter, whatever it is, you need to put everybody else ahead of you, and so, and so, we learned that at a very young age, and unless, unless our parents are extremely emotionally aware, and, and don't have biases of their own, and you know, whatever, it, which is people are people, right, like your parents knew what they know because their parents knew, and you know what you know because of what you're, how you were raised, and so that is very normal. It's not a hit on parents or even society or whatever, but I gotta tell you, sometimes. As we grow up and we become, you know, full functioning adult women, it's easier to put everybody else first, because taking full responsibility for your own happiness and your own fulfillment feels very scary. It can feel very, very scary, and, and so that's part of that, that's really the crux of a lot of the work that I do, and how to blow up your life. It's understanding that you're the only one that's responsible for getting your needs met, for ensuring that you're living the life that you are meant to, and ensuring that you know you're doing the work that you are meant to do here on this earth. You know nobody else can give that to you. Your children cannot give that to you. Your parents cannot give that to you. Your husband cannot get that to you. Your friends, nobody, nobody else is responsible for your happiness to ensure that your needs are getting met. The people around you who love you should help you do that. Like, if you express, hey, you know what? I really, I'm really feeling this way, and I really need this. Could you, you know, help me in this way. Hopefully, the people around you have enough emotional intelligence and care for you that they, you know, will help you as much as they can, but they're not responsible for you. And I think that for me, I had a victim mindset that it was really rooted, I think, in codependency, and this whole thing. Well, I'm doing all this for you, so you know you need to make sure that I'm okay, that I'm taken care of, and of course nobody else is, because it's not their job too. It's, it was my job to understand first of all how I was feeling right, and give me that guy that that flashlight into what was going on, because that's what feelings are, they're a flashlight into the cave of, like, all right, what's going on here, but you know, to understand how I was feeling to understand what my needs were, and to create my life, you know, so that those things were happening for me, or that I was making those things happen for me. And I came up with a framework during this time of my life, I call it. It's have a book coming out the beginning of next year, and it's in it's a, it's a framework I call it creative destruction, which is like it's about dismantling, you know, what's not working in your life, so that you can build something that will, and it's basically made up of three questions, and there are questions that I began asking myself during the pantry days of me standing in the pantry with the chips, right when I found myself doing that, and I started connecting the dots that when I was having this behavior, that it was really, you know, there was something bigger going on. I would start asking the questions. How do I feel? What do I need, and who do I want to be in this moment? And when I first started, it would sometimes take me a week of journaling to understand anything about those three, I mean, even this, the basics of how I was feeling as time went on, you know, I could do it in the moment while I was like packing lunches and whatnot, but it really helped me get to the bottom of, and you know, I was trying to keep it very simple, of like, okay, How do I feel? Okay, I'm feeling this, this, you know, I'm feeling angry, over, overwhelmed, stressed out, pissed off, you know, whatever. What do I need? Do I need a break? Do I need some sleep? Do I need to eat protein, you know, instead of, you know, these carbs. Do I have I really eaten today at all? Right, because that's.. I would skip the whole day of eating, and then that's another thing that I would do with this unhealthy pattern, is just eat junk food at night. And then, who do I want to be in this moment, right? Do I want to.. do I want to be the woman standing in the pantry eating chips like that does not feel very healthy to me, you know. And so, if I, if I'm not the woman that I want to be, then who do I want to be, right? Yeah, those are very good questions to ask. Yes, you mentioned earlier about that people pleasing and health habits, and those.. how.. how does people pleasing affect food movement and self care? I think it all ties back to kind of what we've been discussing, I, you know, people pleasing is such a core component to codependency, because you're essentially in which a lot of most of my work is centered around healing from codependency, and so, okay, we're gonna get a little deep here, so when you are people pleasing, it basically means I'm going to do the thing that you need me to do to be okay, so that you want to stay in relationship with me, that makes sense. Absolutely, so it's it's almost like I'm so afraid that I'm going to lose you, yeah, that I'm going to lose myself, so that you'll be happy, and that you'll want to stay in connection with me. Yeah, and when you live your life like that, hell yeah, you're going to reach for the chip bag, like, because your whole framework for living is denying your own self, yeah, yeah, to ensure that people want to stay in connection with you, yeah. Good, like it comes to my mind that could, that kind of moments usually they come from somewhere, from when you have been very young, maybe you have lost your best friend or some important person for your life, if you were, who knows, maybe you have been five six years old, and you were not doing exactly the thing what your, let's say, your best friend asked you to do, and after that she have said that she don't want to be with you anymore, and that could be the reason that you are behaving this way the rest of your life. Yes, all of this stuff comes from, you know, your fundamental. I'm your fundamental years. I'm trained in the coaching model called the adult chair, and if you, it's, it's based on the, the therapy modality of, like, you have three chairs, you have your child chair, your adolescent chair, and your adult chair, and your kind of fully actualized highest self is kind of what the adult chair would be, and then you have your adolescent self, which is kind of the rebel, a little bit, they, the adolescent puts up walls, defenses, and then you have your child, your inner, which, which a lot of people call your inner child, and it's the source of your joy and your creativity and the connection and all of those, you think about just a joyful child, right, like that's your inner child, and really a lot of your happiness comes from that place, right, so because you're so like you're just full of abandon and wonder, and like I said, creativity, and it's just, you know, it's childhood, should be just this wonderful time, right? But guess what, we're humans living in this imperfect place, in this perfect world, imperfect world, and what happens is, you know, like you said, something in childhood, and that is usually from like zero to seven, I'm the model that I'm trained in, it's like from zero to seven, something has happened, I don't, it could be, I mean, I have things with my own children where you know my youngest daughter has an abandonment issue, because one time she ran up to me, and I was like, probably cooking dinner or doing the dishes or something, I was doing something, I was trying to, trying to get dinner on the table, or you know, the things that mom do, moms do, and she needed me, and I picked her up, and I like kissed her on the forehead, and put her in the playpen, and she feels so abandoned by that, right? Like, you know, but that I didn't do anything wrong, you know, necessarily. It's not like your parents, you know, sometimes it can't. Sometimes big things happen. Don't get me wrong, sometimes things happen, divorces happen, you know, parents. Walk out, there are all kinds of things that happen that are, or you know, there's abuse that happens, or it could be the genesis of how you're feeling, you know, when we're talking about people pleasing and connection, the genesis could be something, you know, terrible that happened in your childhood, but it also could be something very innocuous that, like my daughter, that we had to go through, we had to have therapy over this, this moment. The therapist said, 'Could that have happened? I said, 'Heck, yeah, it could have happened. Like, I had three little kids, like in diapers, like it probably happened every day. Where it just happened to be that one time that she really needed me emotionally, and I couldn't be there for her because I was busy cooking the roast, or whatever I was doing, you know, and, and we had to really work through that, and so I guess, you know, sometimes people are afraid to look at the stuff from their childhood, because they're like, oh, I don't want to betray my parents, or I don't want to, you know, think badly, or I don't want, you know, whatever. And it's really not about that, right? It's just about what did you need that you didn't get, and how can you then give that to your inner child, so that you can move on and stop these behaviors in adulthood. A lot of the work that I do with my client centers around getting just sifting through that kind of stuff. Why you didn't think that it's so hard for so many women to say that there is now my walk, my workout, my meal, or my rest also matter. I think I think we're taught that that's selfish, and that you know the worst thing you can be as a mother, as a wife, as a whatever, is selfish, but then also it goes back to that personal responsibility piece too, so you've got like a little dual edge here of reconditioning yourself that it's okay to put yourself first, like it's, it's okay, and that takes some reprogramming, right? And then it's also, and I'm going to show up for myself because I'm important, so it's a worthiness issue, and it's, and it's a self-responsibility issue. and yeah, that is, I think, great advice for someone, some woman who feels selfish for taking time for herself. Yeah, it's.. it really is imperative. It's not.. it's not so. it, you know, you hear the cliche of like put your own oxygen mask on, or what have you, and that does.. I've heard that for years, and it gets old, and, and I, but it is true, I mean, it's cliche for a reason, it is true, because if you're not, you know, I think this is what this is what we miss as women, especially, so you know, every one of us is here on this earth for a distinct purpose, that's what I believe, to bring your fullness on, you know, onto this earth, and if you're not operating in your full and complete self, you're really robbing the world, and you're robbing the people around you because they're not experiencing the best you, and so if you think about it that way, right, and how are you going to, how are you going to become the best you, right? You're going to do your emotional work, that's the best thing you can get for your kids. I say that to the moms, all the moms out there who might be experiencing this way, this, or feeling this way, you know, the best thing that you can ever do for your kids is get emotionally healthy. There's.. I can't think of anything better. So, do your personal work right, and, and, and take, take care of yourself, model to your children what that looks like, what that looks like emotionally, what that looks like physically, what that looks like in relationships, right? What it looks like in work, like model, be able to model to them, because that's how they're going to learn. They're not going to learn by what you tell them, they learn by what you show them, you know, and so, yeah, it's just so important, but really, when you're not doing these things to step into your fullness, then you're really, you're really robbing everyone around you of the very essence that you. Who came here to create and provide? Yeah, that's what we are. I'm this is all what I have been thinking, like me, we are expecting our first baby to born in when we are recording this. It's one month from now, so once this episode is out, we are pretty close already, if it's if he's not already here, but this is exactly what I've been doing, like that, you know. You can talk whatever you want, of course, it might help, but the best way is always with your own example, and they, you said it so well with connecting all the dots modeling with your emotional health, your habits, your behaviors, and then you know if you, if you tell to your kid, for example, that breakfast is important, but you are skipping breakfast yourself, is that your children, is he going to believe what you say or copy what you are actually doing? So it's, I think, there is that being a model with your actions, it's more valuable than actually the words what you use, that is very true. I can say my youngest child is now like 22 so I've been through the whole thing, and it's, it's, it's true. They definitely pick up on what you do. It's all the unsaid, unheard background, subconscious stuff that, that you know, that's the stuff that gets them talking all the time, like, like you, you said that, but I, what you said and what you did was different, Mom. You know, I get that, and they're astute, and they're allowed to, you know, say those things to me. So, yeah, let's get back to your story. Yeah, what, what was the turning point for you, so my turning point is something I call my garage door moment, actually, and it's silly, but normal, so normal. It was about, it was about the same time as the hand in the pantry. It was all around the same time. My kids were very little. When you have like three kids under, you know, I don't.. I don't remember how they were all in elementary school. I know that. So, maybe one was in the fourth grade, one was in probably the second grade, and one may have been in kindergarten. It may have been even younger than that. Getting out of the house in the morning is a feat in and of itself, like it's, it's really tough. So on this particular morning I had gotten everybody together, nobody had thrown up, everyone could find their shoes, you know, it's like, oh, like the stars were aligning, and I got in. I think we were driving a minivan at that time. I got into my minivan, and I pulled out of the garage, and I hit the button to close the garage door, and it wouldn't close, and then it wouldn't close, you know. I'm like pounding the garage door button, it's not closing, and I lost it, complete full on adult temper tantrum. Lost it, like I'm stomping around, I'm getting out of the car, I'm like slamming the doors, I'm like trying to get it closed from the inside, and so you get the, you get the picture, and I, you know, it, it kind of goes back to like my husband at the time had told me he'd fixed it and fixed it, and so I was mad at him, and you know, it's just this whole thing, and I get back in the car, and I look in the rear view mirror, and my three kids are like one of them's like looking down, one of them staring out the window, and you know, they're they kind of don't want to look at me, or they're just kind of like there, and I realized, like, all right, my kids have just watched their mother become unhinged, basically, and I'm really supposed to be the primary source of safety in their world, and yeah, the I, that, that, what I, what I just did there did not provide that, and not only that, but I have a feeling this isn't the first time I've done this, and I kind of had like this aha moment at that point, right, of if is this really is this really the woman I want to be, is this really the mother I want to be, and. And the answer, of course, was no, and pulling that thread led me to a complete shift in almost every thing I thought I believed, I mean, really, it, it pulled the thread on everything up until that point, right, and thus the catalyst for, for blow up your life, but in really a good way, because in deal and doing the work and understanding, you know, I then took that the work that I was doing and I could apply it to every aspect of my life, of my physical fitness, of eating, of how I related to people, of boundaries, of how I related to my children, of the enabling that I was doing for everybody else in my life, and it changed everything. It changed everything, and I found myself, and I can tell you, so much healthier, and so in all the ways, in all the ways, and it was, it was a true turning point. What, because this is always a question, like if somebody who is listening is not from, sir, there's nobody exactly the same situation with the garage door, but who recognize themselves, and they're thinking that what, what should I change first, like did you change first your food movement or the way you saw yourself? What should I change first? You know, honestly, I would encourage if, if one of my clients came to me and said, 'Show I change first, I would encourage them to get in touch with their feelings, emotions, and therefore intuition. Does that make sense? Absolutely, because, because sometimes I and get comfortable doing it differently, because some days you need to focus on your nutrition, some days you need to focus on on exploring your feelings every day, or we, you know, I'm not going to say day, just because it's a way to qualify it, quantify it, but the emphasis of focus might be need to be different depending upon what's happening inside of you, the processes, the synopsis, you know, the neuroplasticity that's going on in your brain, the way that you're relating to people, those things can change, and what I found, what I found is learning to trust myself is the most important thing that I have have found in this process, because that voice that comes in, of like Sarah, watch your, watch your nutrition, you know, like that. I'm like, oh, I didn't realize I wasn't eating well, you know what I'm saying? Like, oh, you're, you know what, you're right, like, oh, I have been.. I don't feel that good, but I have. We've eaten out the last five days. I hadn't even thought about it, really. You know, we've been so busy. You know, it's just the taking time to be with yourself, so that your intuition can can kind of guide you a little bit in the best next step to take, because sometimes, especially if you're going through a big change, or if you are starting, it can feel overwhelming, and putting one foot in front of the next is sometimes all you can really do, and so I feel like if you can get in touch with yourself and learn, learn what that it's not the still small voice, it's the still or smaller voice underneath that. Learn who she is and learn how to find her, listen to her, trust her, the rest is going to fall into place because she'll tell you what you need to eat or she'll tell you what you need, like she'll, she'll let you know what needs to happen, and that's that's you, that's your inner wisdom, it's very wise words, so you mentioned earlier that you were. Or the person who was obsessed with the scale, and you lost, you lost 52 pounds over about 18 months, probably. How did that happen without making it only about the number on the scale, you know? Okay, so I did. You know, when you want to lose weight, you do have to make some choices and decisions, and it looked like a few things, because it's never just one solution, as you know, it's usually a combination of things. So, a few things happen. The first thing that I did, and you know, is I joined a structured program for weight loss, where it just helps you, and what I found is that I tried not to be like super rigid with it. What I wanted to do is what I realized is I become so unaware of what was going in my mouth, so unaware that it was, I didn't even.. I didn't.. I had kind of lost basic education, of like, okay, you know. So, if I'm hungry and I need a snack, you know, maybe not the chips, maybe a slice of turkey, you know. So, like, it's. I didn't have tools anymore, or I don't know, I just hadn't exercised that muscle. It wasn't like I wasn't educated in nutrition, it just had not used it in a long time, and so that system helped me kind of just put numbers around, like all right, let's let's figure out what's, what's the daily consumption looking like, really, you know, oh, too many points here, too much, okay, or the wrong kinds of points, or whatever. So that really did help. Another thing that helped is move every day, so I had a move every day plan for myself, and at first that just looked like getting outside every day, and like walking around, or whatever, and you know, here's the deal, I had like grown up in sports, so it's not like I didn't understand, you know, training or whatever. I was a competitive swimmer growing up, and so that's heavy, heavy, heavy into training. So it's not that I didn't have a knowledge of what a good workout was, or whatever. So then it started with just a walk, like it was like first it was like do something every day, and then that turned into I need, I realized I needed to get outside every day and do something, so that turned into a walk, and then that turned into what I call my, like, a walk run, or I called it, what did I call it, I called it extreme interval training, or the lazy man's run, like I don't know, I could, like, I would call it that. So I'd like, first I like walk a block, run a block, walk a block, walk a block, and then the next thing you know I was doing like five ks almost every day. Wow, right? And sometimes I would walk it like I wasn't too, like it was just more about trying to get something done every day, even if that was stretching, whatever it was like. So I would kind of, I would use my intuition to be like, all right, Sarah, and then I would do, and then I added some push-ups and some sit-ups, and so I added some, like, just little things, some squats, little things that I could do, and then you know, once I kind of got that down, then I joined a gym, which I didn't want to join, and my mom was like, "Oh, you should join this gym, I love it, and I was like, gym's not for me, you know, whatever. But then, then I turned out I just loved it, because it was kind of group training, and you could pop in. They had a 30 minute workout, they had, they called it the board workout, was a 30 minute workout, and of course, I didn't do that every day, but it was, I added strength to it, basically, is what I'm saying, like more intensified strength, and so I would do that, like three times a week, or four times a week, and then I would, you know, integrate the other move every day, like just stretching the rest of the other days, or whatever, that helped a lot, and then, you know, I had some friends that were kind of on the same journey, I feel like community is so important. Oh yeah, and so we would go to dinner, and we would split an entree, like that's what, like, we just knew that's what we were going to do, like so just being more aware and adding movement, it wasn't hard. Like it wasn't like I was white knuckling it, like, and if I wanted a brownie, I would eat a brownie, and I wouldn't worry about it, you know what I'm saying, like, but I wouldn't eat the pan either, right? So you have the emotional component, and then, and then you know, I did need some guardrails there in terms of figuring out what my consumption was going to look like, and that was only temporary. I didn't do it forever. I just, just until I understood, like, okay, this is what full feels like, this is all right, this is here are some healthier choices you can do for yourself. And then, and then, getting some, a little bit of community around it too helped a lot, yeah. And what was I'm, I'm sure at some point progress was slowing down or feeling that it was too slow. What helped you keep going on those times? You know, I tried to make the, the satisfaction, not a, I tried to remove the satisfaction component from the scale to what you know, what I had control over. Does that make sense? Like, so would the showing up, yeah, the I would get to the gym, and let's say I didn't have 30 minutes for the workout, let's say I had, you know, sometimes I, I mean, you know, my trainer would kind of get on me because he's, he was like a huge, like he trains like professional athletes, so I get it, but I'm not a professional athlete, so you know, I would show up late for the class, you know, and he'd be like, 'You're 30 minutes late. I'm like, 'But I am here, I am here, and I'm doing 20 minutes, that's what I'm doing. So, so be happy, I'm happy. Oh, yeah, I'm happy, I'm here. Yeah, and I think that's all what all trainers should be like, you were at the time, not blaming for someone who is 30 minutes late, like this is at least I, it's coming probably like what you had in the past, if you were at like training as a professional athlete or very high level of athlete, and many trainers aren't as skilled, that you know, if you don't get in your one hour workout, how you think they're your clients, like you, in this point, you know, you, you have three kids to take care, and you are making time, you are in a stuck, probably in a traffic, and you still make it, and what do you get if you get the answer like somebody else, probably at this situation, so huge that they would say that you know what I can also quit it, but huge compliments for you that you were you were the one who said those words that you know I'm still here, because it's not always about the perfect workouts, what matters in my opinion, more is actually showing up and being consistent, and then following through those actions and promises what you make to yourself. So, if you promised you talk to yourself that you know you, you are going to the gym, doesn't matter, even if you go there, knock the door and go away, you still, you still showed up, and it's not about getting that one hour perfect workout in right, so the satisfaction component for me was the showing up. Yeah, awesome. And so amazing, I, you know, I stopped, and you know, once I stopped focusing on the scale, it got so much easier, you know, because there wasn't a disappointment when I stepped on, and it wasn't what I wanted it to be, because as women, my God, and I was going through perimenopause at the time, like your water weight, I mean, you can go up and down, and I mean it can get depressing, you know, and so you could work so hard, and maybe you're building muscle, and so you're retaining water, and you know, I don't know, I just, this I won when I showed up, that's that's how I got through the plateaus, that's so well, and so, well said, and huge congratulations. You have few hours living proof that showing up is really, really valuable, and gets rid of that all or nothing mindset, what probably most of us have went through, at least at some point in their life, and, and I still struggle with it, like that's a mindset that it's very easy to fall back into, very easy, and so, God, just letting go the reins a little bit, and just be like, you know, where's my point going to be, where's the yay me point going to be, you know, what's that gonna, what should that look like, um. And removing it from some sort of, like, you know, removing it from perfect diet, perfect workout, perfect, whatever, and just like, you know, my next choice. Okay, so I ate, you know, I ate something I wish I hadn't eaten. All right, you know, the next choice is going to be different. Don't worry about, like, all next week I'm not going to eat anything. Don't, that's too much. That's too much. Like, my next choice is going to be a little bit higher protein or more fiber, or whatever, less sugar. Keep it in the, keep it, keep it simple. Yeah, that's very good advice. So, time is flying. Oh my god, I love to ask you so many questions, go deeper on topics, but trying to keep this short, I don't want to steal your whole day, just a few close and quick questions. So, what do you, would what would you say to a woman who feels like she has lost herself. I would say that you're still in there, you really are. And it won't take long to uncover her, you know. Sometimes you might need a little help, and there's nothing wrong with help, but she's still in there. Then, what would you say to someone who keeps eating at night and thinks she just has no discipline? I would say, you know, you first of all, I would say it's okay, like don't don't beat yourself up, and let's talk a little bit about what's happening inside when that's going on, like you're not a terrible person for standing in the pantry in the middle of the night with your hand in the chip bag, you're just not right. This is a normal reaction to feelings that are hard. So, where can people learn more about your work? Oh, yeah, so I, you can find me, my website is Sarah stansbury.com and I write a weekly Substack, and you can find me on Substack and at Sarah stansbury.substack.com and then I'm on all the social media channels, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, Pinterest at Sarah Stansbury. Thank you so much, Sarah. I really enjoyed this conversation. I will put those all links to show notes, so make sure to check out Connect with her, and because I think her story, her knowledge, you heard everything in this podcast. So, thank you so much for listening, and remember, leave those five star reviews, they are helping so much that more people are finding this podcast. So, thank you so much again for listening. Thank you, Sarah. And talk to you in the next episode. Thank you so much, Toro. It's a pleasure.