Turo Virta: 0:58

So most adults who struggle with food don't make don't wake up one day and suddenly have a problem. Often the story started much earlier. Maybe it started with being told to finish your plate, maybe it started with food being used as comfort, maybe it started with being bullied about your body, maybe it started with same dieting or feeling like your body was something to fix, and then years later you find yourself thinking, Why do I keep eating when I'm not hungry? Why do I feel out of the out of control around food? Why do I feel guilty after eating, and why this is so hard to change? Today's conversation is about that. I'm joined by Kami Moozavi, founder of Step Together. Cammy helps families and children address emotional eating, overeating, weight struggles, and shame around the food at the root, his work is also deeply personal. After moving to Canada from Iran as a child, Cami grew up overweight, experienced bullying, private pinch eating, and later struggled with bulimia while building a successful career. And what I really appreciate

about his message is this: 2:13

kids are not broken, adults are not lazy, and food struggles are rarely just about willpower. In this episode, we talk about how childhood experiences shape our relationship with food, how parents can support children without shame, and how adults can begin to break patterns they don't want to pass on. So, if you are, if you have ever struggled with emotional eating, or you are a parent who wants to help your child build a healthier relationship with food, this conversation is for you. So, let's get into it. So, Kami, first of all, welcome to the show. And before we go into the work you do now, could you share a bit about your own story, and how food became part of your life.

Unknown: 3:05

So, as far as I can remember, oh, by the way, thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to have a chance to talk about this, but I was basically the kid who, you know, you think a child loves food and you just see them overeat, and they're the kid who's a little bit chubbier from a young age, and when you give them food, they light up, so you want to give them even more food. So I was that kind of child, I was like very, very kind of a foodie from a young age, and I just love to eat, at least as far as it looked like on the outside, and I grew up in a household where food was joy, a lot of celebrations, every single like celebration that we had. My mom loves to throw big parties, have a lot, like maybe seven different types of dishes, desserts, salads, all kinds of things. And my entire life revolved around food from a young age, but very quickly, for me, food became the way I coped with my emotions, and I didn't realize it at the time, because for me it never really felt like I was an emotional kid, but in hindsight, because of the stress that we were having as a family, immigrating with a lot of financial stress, a lot of arguing between my parents, sometimes even some kind of violence, for me, food became the place where I was finding quick hits of joy.

Turo Virta: 4:25

So, you moved to Canada, where you are living now, from Iran, when you were seven. How did.. how did that life change shape your relationship with food, body image or belonging,

Unknown: 4:42

so it's right before coming to Canada. I didn't have that much weight issues. When I look at the pictures, it looks like, you know, a little bit on the chubby side, a little bit maybe, but not something that you would be like, okay, this child needs some support. But when I came here, I almost blew up instantly, and it was really because of the stress that we had a lot of financial challenges. The financial crisis also in 2008 affected us a lot, and so there was instantly the tension around the home was more, and the way I didn't realize this, but the way I was coping with it was totally by using food for me, it was just like, yeah, I was starting to eat more, and I love to go more towards the sweets, and if I'm having dinner, I want to have another dinner, and right before bed, I want to have a third dinner, so it was quickly became things like that, and definitely the weight affected me a lot. I remember, as far as I can, back even when I was a kid, all my friends, my, my, the joke was that I'm the fat kid who just, you know, you poke at, you know, especially between boys, it gets pretty aggressive, you know, they scoop your breasts, they poke your stomach, they try to, like, bother you, and like, try to make you. After them, and you can't, because I can't run after the kids, so a lot of things like that made me really self-conscious about my weight.

Turo Virta: 6:04

Yeah, so was you were, you were obviously, because you talk about to talk a lot about growing up overweight and being bullied, like you said, and using food privately. What do you, these adults around you had understood at that time?

Unknown: 6:25

So, obviously, my parents didn't want to see me suffer. No parent wants to see their child be overweight, get bullied, and struggle with weight. And so, my mom put a lot of energy. She really likes both my parents are in the medical field. My mom even has a PhD in public health, so she was very conscious from a young age. I remember I was like seven, and she's showing me how to count calories, and she's talking to me about this diet or that diet, right? So, from a young age, I was constantly being put on either restriction or exercise more, and so it was always at the surface level, right. It's simple. If you're overweight, you're eating more calories than you're burning. At least

Turo Virta: 7:07

science

Unknown: 7:07

is the thermodynamics of

Turo Virta: 7:08

it. Yeah,

Unknown: 7:09

that's science is simple, but the reason behind that is extremely important. Why was I overeating? I don't even remember a single person asking this question.

Turo Virta: 7:20

Yeah,

Unknown: 7:21

what is actually going on that is causing me to eat more calories than I burn? And that's where I wish parents, my parents, and even the adults I work with, a lot of dietitians, and even sometimes therapists, but no one really asked the connection between the emotions and the food,

Turo Virta: 7:37

and when, when was the moment for you when you realized that there was, it was not just about food, but something deeper,

Unknown: 7:47

so the way too late. I wish, I wish I knew much sooner. So I went my entire life, like I was, you know, pretty successful in school. I went into engineering. I went to California. I had a startup, you know. I had all the success, and even then I was coming home, and you mentioned bulimia. It's something I struggled with well into my 20s. I would work hard, get a lot of success, and then come home, and food was the way I would just like numb everything, all the stress that I was feeling, and then I would go to the bathroom, and you know how bulimia goes, but I never, I never made the connection between this. I always, in the back of my mind, I always had this idea that how to have more discipline and willpower, but it was, it's in hindsight, it's kind of surprising, because I had all the discipline and willpower to be so successful, have good grades, and become successful in my career, but why not with food? How was I able to run a marathon but not able to control my binge eating at night?

Turo Virta: 8:48

Yeah,

Unknown: 8:49

so this kind of like mental distortion was happening for most of my life until finally I decided that I'm going to leave everything else behind, all my career, and everything, and make this the single focus of my life, because for me it was miserable, like I was really like it was a facade, everything looked good, but internally I was crumbling with this food addiction for way too long, and I was, I just wanted to figure out what's going on, so that's what I did, I left it all behind, and I just plunged a little bit deeper,

Turo Virta: 9:16

yeah, and this is this is a struggle, like what you mentioned, like it's that many people, like yourself, think that this is only discipline problem, and I see it every day, like people are often very successful in their maybe some other areas in life, in in in educating themselves in a work life, and they just think that this is why I can't have this discipline with with my food and overeating, but why you think that it's it's it's kind of too simple to say that I just have a discipline problem.

Unknown: 10:03

It's because it's the message everywhere, that's really what the focus is on, especially now with the rise of the GLP ones. Even still, we're focusing on, okay, you're just overeating, let's give you a drug to eat less, which makes it easier to have discipline, right? No one is looking at why again. Why was the overeating happening at all? It's just we're trying to chemically alter the fact. So, I think it's just the messaging. It's from a young age. All I all I was hearing is diet, exercise, diet, exercise, diet, exercise, and it's a matter of discipline to be able to stick with it, and if you can't, it's because you just sometimes it's like either you don't care enough or you just don't have the discipline.

Turo Virta: 10:46

When you see now in your work that child is overeating or hiding food, what do you think might really be going on, I. Their need,

Unknown: 10:58

so it's, it's a mystery to us, because we can't just make assumptions. When parents come to us, it's funny, they expect us to be like, "Hey, can you talk to my child to tell them to eat less and do a little bit more exercise? And we're like, "Hold on, first of all, we don't work with children directly, which is extremely important. We work only with the parents, and the first questions we ask has nothing to do with the child. We ask parents, what is their relationship, and how did they grow up with food, because so much of the stuff that they are passing on to their kid is subconscious. They don't even realize how from a young age, they themselves had challenges, and now subconsciously they're passing it on, and it's not always the food challenges, sometimes it's alcohol challenges, other kinds of shopping, gambling, anything that is addictive, anything that is not a healthy emotional regulation strategy, children pick up on that. So we try to assess the entire home. What is the message being passed to the child, and what is the emotional tension in the home, which can allude to the child having issues with food, with school, with anything that is maladaptive?

Turo Virta: 12:13

And what, what could be, what are some emotional needs food can meet for child

Unknown: 12:20

loneliness stimulation. A lot of children that we have, they have strong ADHD, which I also found I had. So, you need a lot of dopamine because your brain doesn't have it. Anxiety when you're stressed, when you have exams coming up, and you're like, "Oh my god, I just need to have a pizza late into the night, or "Let's go get some ice cream. Sadness, guilt, all these emotions. When a child has emotions, they're simply trying to communicate to their parents or their surroundings. "Hey, something's not right, and I need help to fix this. And so, if they can't find the help in the parents or their friends, they still need something. You can't expect the child to sit down and meditate and self-regulate and go on a walk, because they feel anxious. They don't even know that that's an option. They might be lucky that their parents have taught them from a young age, and they could maybe have the willpower at that moment to apply it, but it's rare. They don't have the frontal lobe development to be able to do it, so it's really primarily we help parents to be able to understand the emotion and help address it in a way that's actually helpful, and by that I mean you don't want a child comes to you, and this unfortunately often happens with actually both parents, but often a child comes to their mom and says, "Hey, Mom, I'm anxious, and the mom gets even more anxious, and they brought, put more anxiety on the kid, and like, "Oh my god, this is why would a child come to you for that if that's the case? And then sometimes they go to their dad, and the dad's like, "This is how you have to solve it, this is what you should do, why don't you listen to me? And the child is like, "I just wanted to vent a little bit, I just wanted someone to listen to me, and that's true for adults too, by the way. So, this is what happens when you don't find the right emotional coping, you go to other substances.

Turo Virta: 14:06

Yeah, and that was a good point. What you mentioned now, in the end, I wanted to ask you, that do you see similar patterns in adults and children?

Unknown: 14:17

It's all the same. The only difference is that adults have a little bit more of the frontal lobe development, the part of your brain that can have a break in front of your impulses, both emotions and external. That's the only difference, but it's all the same. Adults, as a man who was in engineering, to me this was a complete blind spot. I was extremely logical, I was like, emotions, they're a weakness, you put them aside, you try to suppress them. The only reason I started meditating back in the day, when I was still an engineer, was because I was like, I need to control my thoughts, I need to suppress negativity, so that I can be more productive, and so that's typically a lens. Most, most people are not aware that they're entirely run by their emotions, and that emotions are useful. Emotions are trying to communicate something.

Turo Virta: 15:05

Yeah, if

Unknown: 15:06

you're anxious, it's because your mind is worried about the future, and there's uncertainty, and it's trying to tell you to do something. But if you go suppress it with food, or drugs, or alcohol, you never have the chance to actually solve it. You're just delaying the problem even further.

Turo Virta: 15:20

Yeah, that's very true. Because in my coaching, I often see adults eating after dinner, even when they are not hungry, and many blame themselves, but often they are trying to suit something. So, do you see that same pattern starting early in life?

Unknown: 15:43

It often starts even before we're conscious, right? A child is born, their way to communicate with their parents is with emotions, they're crying, they're, you know, they have a need and they don't know how to. Press this need, and the parents are supposed to detect, hey, my child is hungry, or they're tired, or they're sad. And then you try to address them, and so, very at a very young age, they can start developing this. I can go to food, or I can go to technology, I can scroll on my phone when I'm needing stimulation, or feeling bored, and this can happen, and this can stick with you, especially because your brains, most of its development happens by the age of eight. About 80% of your brain develops by that time. The patterns that get stuck there go deep into your subconscious and they stick with you until well into adulthood.

Turo Virta: 16:31

Yeah, and what are then like common family patterns that accidentally create shame around food,

Unknown: 16:44

you know. When you see your child overeat, you get anxious, you get worried, you don't want them to suffer. You are like, "Hey, I need to intervene and do something to help them, and so you tell them,"Hey, haven't you had enough? or"You should stop, like, go do something else, or "Hey, your stomach's getting too big, or you kind of make it a joke about it. It's like, "Oh, look at him go again, he's eating again. Right at the moments that this is happening is extremely, extremely painful. I can tell you, as even today, because the patterns are still there. If you tell a child that is in the moment of going to grab something, you tell them anything, almost it's high likelihood that they will feel shame, and they will feel like you're restricting them. And then that's where the pattern of sneaking behind you and going into the room and not eating in front of you can start developing, because again, the child is looking for something very either it's very simple, they're looking for dopamine, they're looking for stimulation, or they're looking for something deeper, which is an emotional need, and if you're a parent coming in the way and saying,"no, I'm not going to let you have your emotional need, it's not going to solve it. What you have to do is just observe, just observe the patterns and change the things around it to make that happen less and less. For example, if their child is stressed, how can we help them be less stressed overall, so that they don't need to go to food, instead of at the moment of stress, they're going to food, they're like, "Hey, stop eating.

Turo Virta: 18:13

Yeah, that's probably like it's. it makes sense giving that answer, but often it's the actually probably the worst thing what you can do if you are trying to create rules and telling like that, then you know you, you start to create that same and everything, and is there something like what parents would avoid saying, even if they mean it well, like what kind of things you would not say.

Unknown: 18:45

It's so tricky. It depends how sensitive a child is, but even something as simple as, "Hey, haven't you had enough? or "You ate too much, leave some for later. Like, it's so subtle, like you, you might mean it so well, and you're like, obviously I'm saying this because I don't want the child to suffer, and you know, especially when they come to you and they're telling you that they're being bullied for their weight and they really want help, so you're like, I'm gonna help them, I'm gonna tell them to stop, or like, at the moments that they're overeating, it's very tricky. Instead, what you want to do is gently just like ask them, "Hey, what's going on? Tell me about your day. Cannot pattern interrupt it, right? Don't focus on the food, focus on, okay? I see that maybe there's an emotional need. Let me try to help it in some other way. Your child, your child is asking for, 'Hey, can I have some Oreo cookies or can I have some chips? Hey, okay, that sounds like a good idea, but let's go play some soccer instead for a bit. Let's go, let's go walk outside a little bit. Yeah, right. And in that time, maybe have a chance to talk with them and see what's going on. Yeah,

Turo Virta: 19:46

so kind of like saying patterns, like what I would say, like adults might be aware of this, that you break the pattern, you break the eating, and even in some way delay it, say that. Okay, of course, you can have your cookies, but let's talk or play or go for walk or outside, and then come back and wait like 10 minutes, 20 minutes, because then brain start to actually, or you start to feel that you are actually, you had enough, that it's not only at the moment, so that kind of same same kind of deep spot works actually for adults, but we could use them for children too. So, how then does pressure around food, like finishing, finish your plate, or you shouldn't eat that affect children long term,

Unknown: 20:41

again, it's, it's hard to say, but it's case by case, right? For sure, if you, if you tell your child to finish their plate when they're not actually hungry, you're basically teaching them to override their internal hunger cues, but most people know that, most people know that you should. Do that anymore, like it's.. it's because we come from generations where my parents grew up in war, and you know, a lot of parents in previous generations, they suffered like this, so they're like, food is scarce, we have to finish it, you can't waste anything, but it's rare that I see parents say that these days.

Turo Virta: 21:12

Yeah,

Unknown: 21:12

right,

Turo Virta: 21:13

yeah, but still, people like me.. I, my mom used to tell that to me, and I still struggle with it, like, and, and I now, like, I'm mid 40s, and I talked a couple years ago with my mom about it. I said, that you know, I'm over 40, and I still struggle leaving food behind, and my mom was like, oh, I didn't even.. I, she never realized it, she never realized, or she wasn't aware, and I said, you know, that, that started all from my childhood, and it's.. it's.. I was always the person, you know, I was doing a lot of sport, and it was like, then my mom said, okay, she got that from my grandma, so her mom, and it was I'm originally from Finland, so it was my grandma was part of when there was a war and everything, and there was really not much food around, so then it passed that same advice patch from generation to generation, and now as a result I still struggle with it, and of course they didn't mean anything bad, but it was just something what she got learned, and she thought that this is the right, you know, you don't waste food, you can throw it away, and you have there is only this little pieces left that why you are not eating it, and it's funny how it's affecting even now I'm coaching and telling people and knowing exactly what you should be doing, but still myself struggling, really leaving something behind.

Unknown: 22:48

Yeah, that's I know exactly what you're talking about, because it's also the same for me, throwing away food, for me it's actually very directly tied to the price of it, because I grew up in a lot of financial challenges. Growing up thinking of throwing away food is like, oh my god, that's like $2 worth of food, like I can't do that, like I should finish it. Or there's like, in the back of my mind, when is the next time I'm gonna have the chance to eat this food?

Turo Virta: 23:13

Yeah,

Unknown: 23:15

so I'm trying to have it, you know,

Turo Virta: 23:17

yeah,

Unknown: 23:18

and make sure that I get the chance to eat

Turo Virta: 23:21

it, yeah. No, but this is all coming from our background, and it's, it's like, even I don't know if, like, if my mom, if there was the same thought behind it, but it was like, for sure, like, if you keep talking about some or families like your family had some financial struggles, which were real, and then it's if you only talk about those struggles within the family and child, of course, overhearing them and hearing them, what you are talking about, and then you think that if you mention it to your spouse or someone that you know this is costing so much and I don't have money and and then you think that you know I can't, this is this was now costing $2 or whatever, and now I can throw it away, but then instead of kind of forcing your child or yourself to finish it, because you, you can't, it's you can't waste money, because it's finances are tight, but it's, it's anyway, I think that it's, it's anyway waste if it's ends up in a carpet, or you can store it later, or, or you know, it's it's it's waste anyways, if you eat it, if, if you don't really need it, and plus that you get, you learn really bad and harmful patterns of doing it.

Unknown: 24:45

Yeah, but it's, I completely understand, there's, it's really hard to reframe this.

Turo Virta: 24:50

Yeah,

Unknown: 24:50

the idea that it's worse in your bus system than out, like, if you throw it away, it's really hard to actually,

Turo Virta: 24:57

yeah, it is easy to say, but in real life, when that is actually, it's not that we invent these things, these are things actually happening, and it's everything is true. So, what role does the home environment play, not just the food in the house, but the stress routines, sleep screens, and emotions.

Unknown: 25:24

Well, it's everything, right? If the home environment is not stable, and there's a lot of chaos, and there's a lot of cheap dopamine traps, like food and screens, then your child stands in no chance, right? They are going to be in constant temptation and in constant emotional need, and they're going to have to do something. They're going to have to use screens, they're going to have to use food. You can't expect them to be in a home that's chaos and not need to have better emotions. Own regulation, and often the challenge is this. If you're a kid, let's say you're a 10 year old boy, and your mom and dad are constantly fighting, and you have a problem at school, someone is causing you bullying or trouble, and you're looking at your parents, and they're already so overwhelmed with their own stuff, it You wouldn't want to go to them, you wouldn't want to put more. You feel so much guilt, you don't want to make your mom even more upset. Yeah, so you keep it inside, right? And I see that happen all the time. So it's the utmost importance when we work with parents, we focus entirely on the parents first to make sure that they're modeling the right food behavior, but even the emotional regulation, and then only then we actually don't even talk about the child much. Once the parents get stable, naturally a child just adopts the same patterns that they have, very, very simply. Once the parents understand themselves better, they can also understand their child better, because we're all the same.

Turo Virta: 26:58

Yeah, yeah. And this is so true. It's so true, like it's not, it's not always the words what you are telling, but it's often examples how you are doing as a, as a parent, like. So, anyway, like many children, as a parent, like at least I think, if I think if my parents or somebody told me something, or like the people who I really love and care, but would I take advice from them? Probably not, but would I look what they were doing and trying to do the same, probably. Yes, so taking advices from parents or from someone who you truly love, it's at least for many people, like for me especially. It's, it has, it was always a struggle to take an advice. If you say that don't do it, okay, then you said, and look how I will do it, but it's, it's, it's those examples are even more important than that. As a parent, that you are actually eating like you wish your child would eat, you are exercising. If you wish that your child is starting to exercise, it doesn't tell, it doesn't often help that you tell that start exercising, it's showing example and doing it, then you have a lot greater chances that your child is actually starting to exercise.

Unknown: 28:30

Yeah, it's inspiration is always the thing that works better than pushing and forcing and restricting, and you know, it's funny, it's true. For I'm sure you experienced this as well, even now that I'm running a company, and I have people who work with me. If I ask them to do something, and I'm not doing it to the best of my ability first, there's often something that falls through, right? So, even for example, between our child weight loss specialists that step together, we all try to stick to the best whole foods diet that we can, and so the way I eat, I notice how it impacts the people that work with me. They also like, if I, they see me slip a lot, I start noticing that they also sleep a lot. So it's very interesting. It's, I think, hierarchical, hierarchical structures just naturally work this way in nature,

Turo Virta: 29:19

so why I want to talk a little bit about that emotional eating and shame. So why does shame make food struggles even worse?

Unknown: 29:32

At the core of it, whether you're ashamed because of your eating patterns, or because of your weight, the shame is itself an emotion, right? Shame is not a, no one wants to feel ashamed, and when you feel ashamed, you also want to fix it with something, and it's very simply to go back to food and things like that, but also, if you feel ashamed about how you're dealing with your emotions, for example, you are using food to deal with sadness, boredom, anxiety, and then the people around you say, "Hey, you shouldn't be eating so much. What do you do? You're like, you're, you're trying to fix your emotion, and people are giving you, you know, they're causing trouble for it, so you go in hiding, you go even further into yourself. You don't tell people that you have struggles with food, or you don't tell them that you know, I don't know if you know this, but men rarely talk about their eating challenges, like bulimia and eating disorders, and, but it's rampant, like I had surprising to me, a lot of my friends growing up, male friends, they told me, yeah, you know, I also had, like, eating disorders, because I was in a group of a lot of bodybuilders, and we love to do, you know, high-intensity activities like that, and, yeah, they're like, yeah, I also had bulimia, or I also had anorexia, but I never felt comfortable talking about it, yeah.

Turo Virta: 30:57

Yeah, no, that's that's so true. Like, men usually hide these things or keep themselves inside and not talking, self talking those things, and, and that is, I believe, that is a very, very common issue nowadays, especially with the guys. So, what happens then, in your opinion, when a child feels like their body's a problem,

Unknown: 31:28

if a child feels like their body is the problem, it's not that the idea doesn't come from them, right? You don't, you don't just naturally feel like, oh, I have a problem with my body. It's because of other people's perception, and it's because you look at yourself in a mirror, and you feel like people will not give you the validation and the love that you feel like you need. And it's unfortunately very true. Like, I'm not going to hide the fact that people, especially kids, are very nasty. Like, you can tell as much as you want to, your children to children to not be mean to the overweight kid, but they will, like, behind closed doors. Girls can be very nasty with the words that they use to psychologically damage you. Boys will be very direct and just, like, call you a fat ass in front of your face, and it's, you know, that's becomes your identity. So it's it it's really important for a child, in my opinion, to overcome this, and not in an unhealthy way, like I'm not saying, "Hey, you should make your child diet and exercise so that they overcome this, but you have to do it, like I'm the only reason I'm doing this is because I know how painful it is to be overweight as a kid, and how much it impacts your psychology, and your confidence, and your self-esteem, even after you've overcome it. Like today, I look like I've overcome my excess weight, but in the background of my mind, or when I look at myself in the mirror, I'm still like looking if I fit nicely in this shirt, and if someone's going to be able to notice that I gained a little bit of extra weight. So that really sticks with you, so that's why I do this. I think children, parents should understand what is causing the excess weight, what is causing the difficulty with the food, so they can actually help their kids.

Turo Virta: 33:07

Yeah, then that is, I hope you are so proud of yourself. That is amazing story, and, and how you are sharing it, and and trying to impact the world with the work what you do, so congratulations. So many adults listening now may remember, like you mentioned earlier, that you remember that you were being put on diet as a child. What impact that can have later in life

Unknown: 33:47

as a child, if you're going on a diet,

Turo Virta: 33:50

it is,

Unknown: 33:53

it's psychological warfare, because it is so hard for you to understand what is actually happening. A diet is very simple, especially typically. It's like you eat less calories or you restrict some food, you go no carbs, or you go, you know, change something drastic, and then inevitably, once you stop the diet, when you go back to your previous routines, the weight comes back, right? So, I can't tell you, I've been through hundreds of diets as a kid, Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, this diet, low carb, keto, I've done it all, and every time it's done, I go back to the home environment, I go back to how I was eating, I go back to the same stress, and then I gained the weight back, and I'm like, okay, what the hell happened? I am the failure. I couldn't figure out how to make this last beyond the diet, but it was entirely the diet's problem. If you just look at the surface, if you look just at fixing the food,

Turo Virta: 34:56

yeah,

Unknown: 34:57

you're never gonna fix it. You're never gonna fix the actual underlying issue. And then the child gets really, they get really hurt because these, they're like trying their hardest, they're pushing themselves. They go to the entire summer, like really working hard and dieting, and then they gain it all back, and then they feel ashamed.

Turo Virta: 35:16

Yeah, I was. This is something, something like when I work with - I work with so many people who told me that their mom put them on diet when they were maybe seven, and I still remember vividly one of my clients said that she is now in her 50s and she has been dieting since age seven, and that all started when her mom put her into diet, and then since then she have been consistently on diet all the time, like, like you mentioned, trying hundreds of them, all of them, and then you. Try to find some different solution, different diets, and you can name all of them. Maybe some of them are working better, but then there is always the problem with the diet. In my opinion, is that all they have a name attacked into it. It's, it's if you can't, I believe always that if you can't imagine following these rules, what that diet says, for let's say 10 years from now, it's not matter of if it's matter of time before you're going to fall back, and it doesn't matter how fast your progress is in the beginning, because many people compare like that, you know, with this diet I lost so much weight within shortest possible time, but if you think that's okay, let's look back. If you think past three years, where you were year ago, two years ago, three years ago, and where you are now, did the thing work, what you actually did, and if the answer is no, like in most cases it is, probably it's not a new diet, it's not going to solve that issue.

Unknown: 37:10

Yeah, exactly.

Turo Virta: 37:12

So now what would you say to an adult who still feels like that bullied or ashamed child around food, like who still feels like an as an adult that like as a bullet or ashamed child around food,

Unknown: 37:37

so the over overall message that I'm trying to convey to the world is really something I wish my own parents knew when I was a kid, right? I wish I could go back in time and help my own parents address what is really happening. You just need to look a little bit deeper, right? You go to your doctor, you go to the nutritionist, and they're all focused on diet, exercise, but try to understand exactly what's going on. Try to understand the science behind all the stuff that I'm conveying here. Try to understand that behind everything that we do, it's emotions, and if your child is struggling with weight and food and leading to bullying, try to honestly, the most important thing to do is try to connect with your child, try to understand and really develop a bond where they feel comfortable telling to you what is going on in their life, and then you have a chance to actually help them, right? But if you focus on diet and exercise, even you damage the relationship that you have, because the child is feels like they're almost at war with you, they have needs that need to be met, and you are putting even more pressure on them to fix them.

Turo Virta: 38:46

So,

Unknown: 38:46

instead, try to connect honestly, just even letting them eat the way they are and be the way they are, but just spending more time with them and trying to understand them is often just the beginning.

Turo Virta: 38:56

Yeah, yeah, that is probably the, if you, if someone who is, as a parent, is worried about their child's eating, that probably would be the starting point, right?

Unknown: 39:09

Right.

Turo Virta: 39:11

So then, what, what are then some better questions parents can ask instead of commenting on weight or food choices,

Unknown: 39:26

it's, it's really, you know, it's hard, depending on the age of the child, you know. If you go to a teenager and tell them, 'Hey, how was your day, Mom, then let me alone, like I don't want to talk about that, or if you try to connect with them, it's really.. it's hard to say just a better question. It's.. it has to be genuine. It's honestly, I feel like not even asking the questions, but creating the space that they can open up to you. Like, go on a walk for an hour, and you'll see that your child will naturally want to tell you something. You don't have to ask questions,

Turo Virta: 39:58

yeah.

Unknown: 39:59

It's just natural,

Turo Virta: 40:00

yeah. Or would it be like I'm just thinking in my, my mind that would it be like something like that if you asked, that are you hungry or are you looking for comfort, or what was hard today, and what do you need right now, or how can we make your body feel good, so that kind of things often build on and start to start that conversation.

Unknown: 40:29

They can, but I really, I want to press this. It's gonna be hard to try to get a child to understand what you mean by are you hungry or are you looking for comfort,

Turo Virta: 40:44

because

Unknown: 40:44

they don't know their brain is yelling at them, I am hungry, because their brain has learned hunger is the way to solve anything, so a child will often, like, they will sense that, and behind those words they will. Understand that you're trying to get them to eat less, and they get defensive, right? So, it has to be very, very gentle. Yeah, you have to really address it almost like a ninja. You have to be very, very discreet about

Turo Virta: 41:10

it. Yeah, yeah. No, that's that's a good point. Thank you for pointing it out. Like, oh, it's.. it's obviously when you are in that situation, and it's not like children are very smart, they read between the lines and understanding where you, what you are trying actually to say, and and there you have to be very, very careful, so for if you for adults who are listening, who grew up with the shame, with the food shame, where do they start?

Unknown: 41:49

I'm not here to pitch anything, or to say that, hey, you should go to step together, or anything like that. I would just say, start with yourself. Start with sitting down and understanding yourself to the best of your abilities. If you have any challenges in life right now, whether it's with food, whether it's with work, whether it's with anything, at the root of it there is something emotional happening, and try to understand that. Try to become skilled at understanding yourself, and you'll see that you'll be able to understand your child a lot more, you know. For me, it's natural. I'm an engineer, I'm trying to understand exactly how systems work, and to me, humans are the most beautiful and complex systems. So, this is like, okay, there's a lot here to be understood. So, just do this, start with yourself.

Turo Virta: 42:34

Yeah, and how then would you break the pattern if you don't want to pass it on you to your kids?

Unknown: 42:47

It's as you said earlier, it's only works when you do as you do, right? Not as you say. Yeah, how do you break the pattern? You do whatever you need to do. For me, it was like I had to leave behind all the distractions, everything that I was distracting me from. This being the biggest problem in my life. As a parent, you can't do that. I know you have the work, you have to sustain your life in some way, but it's often a matter of treating your own needs a little bit more. You know, when you go on a plane, they tell you, put on your own oxygen mask before anyone else, even your kids. It's the same thing, put on your own oxygen mask. Try to understand yourself. If you have any emotional challenges that need to be unpacked a little bit more, you might need to have a friend or a therapist. You know, one of the most beautiful things I've heard recently. It was a psychiatrist who told me it's so sad how little psychiatric and psychological treatments can be a good substitute for love. At the core of it, all humans want is connection and feeling love, right?

Turo Virta: 43:57

Yeah,

Unknown: 43:58

and that's what your child wants to, and so find ways that you're not being met with that need, and then make sure that your child is also being met with that need.

Turo Virta: 44:06

Yeah, that's a very, very well said, hence very smart words. So, what then, if, if parents, how parents can model a healthier relationship with food, even if they are not perfect themselves.

Unknown: 44:27

It's all about how you talk about it, right? Are you someone who's like, 'Oh my god, I'm so excited to eat pizza, but I have to stop, like, I can't eat so much pizza? Or are you someone who says, look, I can appreciate the taste of pizza, but when it sits in my stomach and how it affects my energy, I don't like it. It doesn't let me do the things that I love, right? It doesn't let me sleep well, and the next day I feel

cranky, or it's exactly this: 44:50

it's everything. How you perceive and how you talk about food gets passed down to the kids, and we, if you're talking about, like, oh, I, I'm overweight, I need to go on a diet, the child is going to do the same, but if you say, hey, I noticed that I gained a little bit of weight, I wonder if I've been more stressed recently, oh, let's go look at that, let's go look at what's the root cause of that, oh yeah, it looks, looks like I had a difficult month at work, maybe my relationship was having difficulties, that's the cause of the weights, not because suddenly somehow apparently you ate more,

Turo Virta: 45:27

right,

Unknown: 45:27

that doesn't just happen,

Turo Virta: 45:29

yeah, and what I, what I think, also it's also about like if if I would have someone who is who likes I'm a person who loves to eat a lot, like it can be anything. My good thing is that I, I eat a lot, like people can't believe how much I eat, but my advantage is that I eat basically everything is natural foods I. Barely never eat processed foods, and I think that if, if someone like, if, if you think that the problem is how much you are eating, if you eat whole foods and like ingredients, homemade meals, it's very hard to gain or it's a lot harder if you, if you start to eat processed foods, and a lot of sugars, if you have made most of the foods by yourself and they are not processed, it's it's going to make you so full that it's it's almost impossible to eat like enough or too much fruits or berries or stuff like that, and start having huge issues with the overweight,

Unknown: 46:48

so it's, it's, we're very aligned on that front. What we, what we tell our parents is, if you can't grow it or kill

Turo Virta: 46:56

it,

Unknown: 46:57

don't eat it right, and it's not to be extremely restrictive, like, hey, never have anything processed ever, don't ever have ice cream. It's really just understanding what's going on underneath. There's so much money poured into processed foods, billions of dollars poured into processed foods to make them more addictive, more engaging, and make you want to eat more of it without stopping. That's literally like there's the smartest worlds, right? They're spending all their time trying to figure out how to get you addicted to food, and the same thing is happening with screens. By the way, I used to be a video game developer. All they're talking about is how to make things more engaging, so that your children spend more time on them.

Turo Virta: 47:35

Yeah, if you go

Unknown: 47:37

back to nature,

Turo Virta: 47:38

yeah. yeah. When you understand what is actually purpose of food industry or social media, the only goal is that you consume more of it, and of course, more you consume them better business it is for them. It's same for all social media platforms, it's food industry, everything works the same. It's pharma industry, it's the same, like you, more you consume it better, more money they make, and happier they are. But it makes us, as a consumer, often feeling adverse. Adverse, so last question, what is one thing you wish every adult understood about their own emotional eating?

Unknown: 48:35

I wish adults were kinder to themselves, right. You were just a child who accumulated years in life, and you somehow became an adult. And if you find yourself emotionally eating, it's because you have an emotional need that's not being met healthily. And from a young age, you probably learned this is how you deal with it. Your body found a very, very consistent way to deal with your emotions with food, and so be gentle with yourself. Don't ever be like, "Oh, I over ate, I binged the next day, I'm going to go crazy, and I'm going to go make sure that I burn off the calories. It's extremely counterproductive. Instead, be kind to yourself, be like, okay, I noticed this happened. Let's see what was going on. Was it a stressful day? Am I anxious about something coming up? And then just understand, instead of criticizing and making yourself even feel more ashamed.

Turo Virta: 49:30

That's very well said. So, thank you so much, Kemi. Where can people learn more about your work and step together,

Unknown: 49:40

so very simply, at step together.us you can find stories of other families, you can find stories of every single coach who worked, who works at Step Together, has personally struggled with this. So go ahead and read those stories, and if you feel like this is something we can help you with, you can apply for a one hour free consultation with one of our nutritional therapists to understand exactly what's going on.

Turo Virta: 50:01

Awesome, and I will put also links to show notes, so please make sure to check them. So, thank you so much, Kemi. I really appreciate this conversation, because it reminds us that emotional eating is not just about food, because it's often about stress, shame, safety, and it's about what we learned early in life, and good news is that patterns can change, not with blame, not with punishment, but with awareness, compassion, and better tools. So, if this episode made you think about your own childhood, your own food habits, or how you talk about food at home, I hope you take one small tip step today. And thank you so much for listening. And talk to you in the next episode. Bye.