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Hi, welcome back to the fit me Turo fitness podcast today, I'm joined by a guest who has spent many years helping women stay strong, active and confident as they get older. My guest today is Heike Yates. She's a fitness coach, educator and the founder of pursue your feet and she have actually also a new book called called spark of what is it? Pursu of Spark, if I say I will, I can let know everything and but she helps women over 50, build strength, improve mobility and stay independent as they age. Heike is originally from Germany, but now lives in the United States, and she has dedicated her work to helping we will women navigate the changes that happen in midlife, from hormones and metabolism to confidence and identity. What I really appreciate about heike's work is that she focuses on realistic things and sustainable habits, not quick fixes, as so many, unfortunately these days are doing. And in today's conversation, we talk about what actually changes in the body after 40 and 50, and why strength training becomes even more important than how women can stay active and confident for the decades to come. Heike, welcome to the podcast. Turo, thank you so much for having me. This will be an exciting conversation. Yeah. No, we have, we have so similar audiences or people who we are helping and and actually, it's so funny to know that you are actually originally from or born in Germany, which is not far where I live. I live in South Turo in Italy, and I case, born in close to Munich. So but could you tell a little bit about your journey and how you started working with women over 50? You know, my journey is over over 40 years, and I always say it's for 35 but it's by now 40 years that I've worked in the fitness and health industry, and I came to the United States with the Foreign Service, because I love to travel, and I thought, Oh, what a great way to to see the world. You work at an embassy, and then you get transferred to all these different embassies around the world, which never happened to me, because I got pregnant with my first child. I met my husband, my first husband, and I got pregnant, and I been in the same area around Washington, DC, for the past over 40 years. So I've never traveled for work, but I do love traveling for for fun, and when, when I got here, you know, I I started, you know, I wanted to explore and do things, but then I became a mom, and I had gained 50 pounds during my pregnancy, and I had no idea how to lose that the weight or what to actually do, because growing up in Germany, and you know this from where you live, Turo is people just exercise, they hike, they bike, they go to the grocery store, they walk a lot. It's not like getting like, I was a shock to me when I came to the United States, but everybody was getting in their car to do their errands, and it was back then, really unsafe to buy because people are like, Oh, bikers get out of the way. And as you know, as I saw how sedentary people were, and I wanted to lose the weight from the baby, I felt I didn't know what to do, because in Germany, I didn't go to the gym. I didn't do any of that stuff back then. And so I started taking what was back then called dancer science classes, which is most right now, you would say Zumba. And it was really fun. It was it's amazing. We had a great community of people in the class, and after a few months of taking the class, and I felt getting stronger, and they were teaching me what to do, and I also could bring my son to childcare so I didn't have babysitting problems. They asked me to become a teacher, and first I said no, because I said, I will not hop around in front of all these people. I'm not a Jane Fonda. I'm not doing this, but my husband encouraged me, basically, to get me out of the house and have my own life besides being a mom and a wife, and it was the best thing I've ever done. And you know, I never looked back in my career as I as I worked my way through my fitness journey, from teaching classes becoming a personal trainer, sports nutrition certified. Occasions. And back years, back when I was basically teaching any format guys that you can imagine, step slide, high low impact body, everything I taught, everything kickboxing, before it even became the rave. And I just love to learn. And as I progressed with my career, and then finally opening my own studio, and eventually also creating, pursue your spark, my online brand, i i applied what what I learned in my trainings and certifications on my own body. So I became a bodybuilder. And then I thought, Oh, that would be great be a bodybuilder. What do you need to know? Then I said, then I got into running, and I became an ultra marathon runner. So I ran JFK 50 milers. And then I thought, Oh, my knees are getting cranky. Let's do an Ironman Triathlon, triathlon. So I finished an Ironman Triathlon. And so it's, it's, you know, in each phase that I went through back then, I thought, oh, women want muscles. And it never occurred to me that maybe women don't want to look like bodybuilders. But I learned, and I saw what I applied to my own body I could apply to my clients. And as I got older, and I will be 65 this year, over the years, my clientele changed ages with me. I was teaching to their bodies because I could relate. I could relate to aching knees, to not wanting to do high intensity workouts anymore, but still wanting to be fit and strong, to where now I'm oftentimes dealing even with younger clients, and you can probably see this in your audience, Turo, that people have so many orthopedic needs, bad knees, bad shoulders, bad backs from either over exercising, old sport injuries or just getting older. And so that's how i i Keep, I keep moving with my audience, because they feel I hear and understand them. Yeah, no, I hear your experience, and I think I'm totally relate for those things you mentioned, like it was same for me. I have been doing this now bit over 10 years only. Or it's, I think it's that's already in a fitness space, it's already pretty long period. But obviously you have been doing this for decades and trying everything, and it was kind of same for me. I have I did so many things in the beginning, and when you work with the people, you just learn to see some patterns. And like you mentioned that people like your audience, your maybe ideal clientele, is changing, involving like depending on your experiences, what you feel most comfortable, comfortable of doing and and, of course, when you have done i I'm same way thinking than you like I love to I haven't tried all those things like you mentioned what you did like, I'm not that extreme, I but I still love to try different things. So, you know, and to see, to try, like my own workout programs, I love to try to do them myself and for different purposes, for someone who wants to improve athletic performance or just well being, fixing imbalances in body, all the type of different programs and and then, you know, at least you have tried, and it's it's changing. It keeps it interesting that it's not all the time the same thing, but it's still some form of resistance training always included. Because that first, in the beginning my career, I thought that, you know, my background is professionalized hockey player, and there was a time that I had to do strength training to be able to perform. And then when I retired, it was like that, no, I don't need to do it anymore. So I said, If I don't need to do it, I won't. I didn't enjoy, I still don't enjoy doing it, and I stopped doing it. And then all of sudden, getting close to 40, you start to have back pain. Body starts to hurt. You have those kind of more small injuries all the time. Instead, you know, first you think that this is aging, you know, getting older. But then I realized that, no, I gotta do something for my strength, and that was the best decision. Now it's four or five years ago when I made the decision that I gotta, I don't need to get bodybuilder or anything, but I need to do it for my own health, and that was. Literally the best decision I have, I have made, and, and that is like, like you mentioned about all knee problems, back problems. I i This is, like almost every single day, having a conversations with someone who have a lower back pain, knee issues and, and often I still hear that there is like a very common like, you know, when you have a knee pain, you think that the problem is actually knees or lower back pain. The problem is in your back that you lifted something wrong, which obviously could be but by far, still, the most common reason is that there is something like in a lifestyle, like sedentary lifestyle, or lack of mobility, those kind of things, as you know for sure. Yeah, because you know, people think that stretching is not worth it, or creating mobility training, and then they come, like you said, Everything hurts, and you start moving with them, and they're so stiff and so immobile. I'm like, no wonder you guys have injuries, or you feel pain because you can't move functionally, which is so important, yeah, yeah. What was the what was, I'm always curious to know, like, what were the biggest lessons you learned about aging and fitness from your own experience? I feel Turo that that I when I was younger, I kept pushing hard, and, you know, all these things that I mentioned that I have been doing, I don't want to scare any of the listeners, Hawaii, and saying, Paul, look at her. I could never do this. I am. You need to understand, guys, I am the person who you say, Heike, do you want to be a bodybuilder? And Heike will say, Sure, it sounds interesting. Let's practice this. Let's let's see what happens. I'm very curious about different things. Or my son, at one point, he said, Hey, Mom, do you want to do a Tough Mudder, which is an obstacle course? The one I did was in the mountains here in Pennsylvania, on a ski resort where you climb over high things, and you jump off bridges. And I had no idea what I was getting myself into. And I said, Yeah, sure. And then I said, Oh my god, so you need, you need to know that, guys, this is not the average woman here that does crazy things like this. I do, but what I've learned over the years is that pushing harder is not always good. Your body is very forgiving. When you're younger and you push hard and you're like, Ah, I'm going to be sore for days, but I'll be fine. As you get older, this I'll be fine is just not working anymore, and you feel more exhausted and beaten up after a workout, rather than energized and strong. So as we're going through through life, we really have to listen to our body and say, Hey, wait a minute. I need a rest day. I need a recovery period. Instead of doing heavy weights, today I do a circuit or today is a good day to work on my mobility instead of constantly pounding, which I used to do when I was younger, and I just don't do that anymore. Yeah, yeah. I feel that is, that is kind of that mindset still like what many, many women have on men too, like that. You know, especially with the background of being athlete or doing lot of several things that you think that it's could work out this only when you are sore after, or it need to be hard, or, you know you have to feel it. And it's, it's it changes. It changes. It's not it's not the same as it used to be. And just to be gentle with yourself and your body that it's not the same anymore as it used to be. But also, I want listeners to understand that it's not just that you do little bitty workouts and you don't get results. You do put in what you want to get out of your exercise and your nutrition, but you have to have a an idea of what that is that's ideal for your body. So if you're the person who really wants to get back in shape, you have to do the work, but you do it strategically. And like you said, you know, planning the workouts, having everything lined up so, you know, progression in your work, that's super important. So it's not just as we get older, we we're just, you know, people, oftentimes, I some of your listeners may know from having heard about me or not, as I teach Pilates. And I feel that the alignment and the strength and the mindset of Pilates translates into everything else we do, that we're focusing on form, that we're not just throwing the weights around. And I keep telling them, when you were doing your weight days, we're keeping the same alignment, the same focus that we do through the Pilates work to make it more beneficial for what you do. And so many of us have seen people in the gym throwing these heavy weights around and then just clock they go down because they can't control the weight. We're not like this, right? Turo, yeah, no, no, absolutely. That is that those younger people do their bicep curls in front of the mirror and drop the heavy weights when or way too heavy weights let them drop them down. But that's not what actually a good workout often is. So what is, then, because you are your specialty is working with older population, with the people over 40 or 50, and many women feel that their body is changing around that time. So what is actually happening physiologically. You know, this is an interesting topic, because when I look at midlife, I look at women and men from the age of 40 to 80, we have, we have been able, because of all the medical backgrounds and all the education that we have to live longer, live healthier, but also our bodies are breaking down, and I feel that after 80 is where there are a lot more therapeutic needs. So he just turned 100 last week, and he needs a completely different workout than I would do for me in my 60s or for somebody in their 40s. But I feel that the biggest change especially for women men, don't experience this in the same way as when we're in perimenopause and our hormones are changing, where our testosterone and progesterones are lowered when we're when we're probably putting out more cortisol than we want to, and there's very little. Or there is things we can do to change that, whether you go on on HRT or not, or it depends on your symptoms. But I think when we're as we're getting older, the biggest impact are the changes in our hormone levels that we need to deal with. The biggest thing I can I would say really, is strength training, because strength training increases your testosterone levels, creating more muscle mass, because that's at age 35 already. We're dealing with sarcopenia, the natural loss of body mass, or lean let's say muscle mass, as in that age already, because the hormones are already changing, because our body and metabolism is changing. So as you're going through this, I feel that looking at how you're changing over the years, seeing how your body ages as we all age very differently as well. You know, you age differently than I do. I maybe have more aches and pains, because that's my DNA from my family back in Germany. But what we need to pay attention to is how we're aging. What we really need in each face and not panic, because I know, and you hear it, I'm 50, I'm in menopause. I have belly fat. I need to lose this. My skin gets flabby. I'm not sleeping. I don't have energy. There's a lot to pack in. And even, you know, I'm 65 I still deal with the weight fluctuations, the hormone fluctuations, the not sleeping at night, and it's it keeps going on, but what we do about it is important. Why then I still see, like you mentioned, like we talk, I talk also a lot about strength training, but still I see, I see, and I'm sure you see it as well, that so many women are stopping strength training when they get older. Why do you think that is happening? You know what? I think sometimes they don't feel like it anymore. They're like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm tired of it. But that's one thing I think. Because it gets harder as we get older, things get heavier. But I would say that's one thing they've they may have done it for a long time and just get tired of it and need a change. Or the other thing I think might happen, or is the other category, let's say, is where they are afraid to hurt themselves. I don't know what I do. I don't really know how to lift weights I have been maybe doing or not doing right for somebody who's totally new, they're definitely scared of what to do with these weights or the bands, and they need to learn what what can be done. But that's another hurdle to go over. So I feel that either never exercised, I'm scared to try something new, especially something as challenging as weights, where everybody says, I really get big muscles, which, of course, we know it's not true, which is exact, for a few very small population of women, that's true, but majority it's not true, and that they hurt themselves because then they're not sure what they're doing. And that's where we come in as experts to teach them, don't be afraid. It's the best thing you will do for your body. Yeah, yeah. And there is, like, what is? What are then, like, the biggest like, misconceptions you see in strength training about in around this age group, yeah, it's I get, first off, I get hurt. I would don't want to do it. My muscles will not grow anyways, because I'm old. And I think the other thing could be they're getting big again. That's that keeps to be a prevalent thought throughout the years. For all these years, I've been teaching Turo people or women keep saying, but I don't want to be big. Is this too heavy for me? Yeah, I'm like, No, you need to stimulate the muscle, we're not doing 30 repetitions, get some success. Yeah, no. And this is, I, this is a great, like, I, I just talked it was, it was this week with one of my client. And as you said that, you know, I have a neck pain, like, it's, it hurts little bit and, and that she have asked from a friend, that some friend told her that women shouldn't, shouldn't use heavy weights. And I was like, that, Oh, it depends. Like, and, of course, like, then we were talking what, what actually have happened? And like, she's working out from home using pair of dumbbells. And then then I asked you, are you changing weights for your exercise? And also to know she's using, she have now, she started with three kilo weights, and now she's up to five kilo or six kilo, but she's using the same weights for whole workout. And I said, No, this is actually what you should be doing. Is that, like, you know, bigger muscles, like your back or your legs, they are stronger, and there you probably are letting them take it relatively easy workout. But if you use the same weight for your shoulders or for your neck muscles, or something that is weights, you heavy. So it's yes and no for me, that that, and then when she started to analyze that, you know, neck pain, it's obviously it could come from form? Well, it could come from work, sedentary work, lifestyle like and our sleep or stress. There are so many possible reasons. And obviously weights could be one reason, but it's not in top of my list. And understanding she was like, oh, then it made kind of sense to her that, wow, this is actually that. And then, as you rather I, but if you have, let's say, 30 minute time, I rather let you do like two exercises less or three but today, and take the time to adjust your dumbbells, because when you have access to adjustable dumples, you do once you exercise this list, but you access the weight every time, and so you get a lot more effective workout than using the same dumbbells for whole workout and Getting maybe feeling little bit sweaty or something. So those are just, you know, I always say when I hear like, Oh, I did third my client, just okay. One of my clients has started. I have all my women do push ups, because everybody hates push ups. Oh yeah, I'm I am not good at push ups. Is what I hear. There, yeah, I'm like, that's why we need to do more. So we, you know, we started at the wall doing push ups. Then we go to the kitchen counter or a bench, we go do push ups, and depending on how they progress. And so one of my clients, I was, I teach them in conjunction with Pilates, and I said, Well, you do this, and then you in a position, perfect position to do a push up. And so I said, you know, just do little ones. You know, be on your toes if you want to. That's totally fine, but start working on this. And the other day, she said, I'm doing 30 push ups now. And I said, huh? Are they still as little as when we started a couple of months ago, where it was literally, you know, just little bend of the arm. Nothing, nothing like a real it was a beginning of the push up. And she says, Yeah, but I can do 30 now. And I said, Hmm, you know what? And she doesn't want to go on her knees. I said, you need to make those bigger. 30 is not doing it. I don't know what you're doing, but let's make this like, into a real push up where you're bending the arm more. So I'm curious when she comes back, what, what the result is, yeah, no, that's, it's, I totally agree this is, this is the push up story. Like, it's, it's still like, especially if you work out from home, those are still one of the best exercises you can do. I don't know. I know there's maybe two to three pros, and from my experience of women who actually enjoy doing them, and 97 to 8% are hating them. So that is, if you don't enjoy doing them, it's, it's very, very common. It's very rare, actually, that some women are enjoying doing pushups, and mostly that's probably because they are hard. They are very challenging. But still, it's one of the best upper body strength movements. And like you said, it's just about progression, doing it in a way that you are able to do starting from a wall or or even real push ups, like, what I love to teach is just starting in a normal push up position, first going lower in your body, going as low as you can. And because, you know, down on the on to the wall, to the floor. You get always, it's just matter of how fast. So obviously, if it's too fast, you can't even hold your arm like arm straight, then it might be even that's too much. But just lowering and going as low as you can, and then that push phase when you come up from I don't want to use now fitness terms, so people who don't have who are not coaches, also understand. So when you are boosting yourself up from floor in that face, if you can drop on your knees or or doing so, there are so many different ways to progress this and and it's, it's, if you do them, probably it's, it's, it goes relatively quickly, how fast you are able to progress. And it's amazing, because you see the results. It's a great upper body it's a core workout. Yeah, it's just, it's an alignment, because you want to have good form and not stick your butt up or arch your back. But it's such a great overall exercise. So you guys listen to us, Hiki and Turo tell you, we you need to do more push ups. Yeah. So what is then, if you if someone like we talked about reasons why people are stopping to do strength training, but if someone is listening and is in her, let's say, in 50s, and has never lifted weights before, for some reason, where should she? Where should that person get started? Okay, it depends on your situation. When you think about you're the person who does go to the gym likes to go to workout places like your local health club or the YMCA or community center type situation. Find yourself a trainer. Find yourself a qualified coach that teaches you what to do if you are the person who does let me, yeah, let's go with us. If you don't want to go to the gym, if you're like, oh my god, I do not like to do this and but I want to get stronger again, we have zoom. Get your coach on, zoom and learn from your coach. You may actually talk to a friend who knows what to doing what they're doing, but sometimes I find that backfires, because the friend does whatever they're doing and you have no idea. The other thing also that I find helpful is machines. So if you're not sure what to do with those dumb. Bells and those bands and all of this, you could go to a gym and get an introduction and work with the machines that guide you through. You put a pin in the machine, and you sit on there, and then you push on it or pull, depending there will be an opportunity. The other thing you can do, if you feel confident, get an online program, look at a program that on YouTube that you like, and just get started. And I've had clients that said, you know, I was embarrassed to go anywhere, because I feel so weak, which is, which is terrible. Go somewhere. If you feel weak, get asked for help. But she said, I just started doing YouTube videos, and I was I like this one person, and I started with those exercises, but now I feel I need more guidance. I need to understand better what's going on, instead of just mindlessly doing things. And you know, as one of my male clients, he goes to the gym, and I have no idea what he does, but when I ask him what he does there, he sort of gives me like, I'm doing push ups. And he does push ups at the speed of lightning. You've never seen anything like this. And I'm going, like, okay, and then he uses the free weights. And I say, Well, what do you do with this? And he says, normally I use this weight. And I say, Well, what do you do with this? And he says, I do overhead, you know, the pushes over, up, up in the air. And I'm like, Well, yeah, what does it look like? And he shows me some kind of a version of what that is, and I'm looking at this, and I'm like, Who taught you that? Where does that come from? And he says, Well, I used to be exercising for the military, and that's just how I learned it. So old habits also come into play. But if you're starting out, start small. Start maybe with those three kilos, because you guys are in kilos, we're in pounds. Start small and learn one exercise. Don't be too ambitious. Don't try to do a whole body workout. Yeah, do one exercise. And I always teach bicep curl as the first exercise, because everybody can see what they're doing. They can learn how to control the weights and not throw them around and see how they feel about it. That's what I would say. Yeah, that's a great way. Great very like i It's basically the especially in the beginning, it's just to get started and be not I would say that not be scared of using some weights, like many, okay, if you have only some bands or even with body weight, it doesn't matter. And like you mentioned, even now, YouTube is full of different workout programs. It's a great way to get started. But what I, what I see with, what I my issue with the YouTube workouts, like as with any program in the beginning, especially if you are starting from zero, everything will work. You will see results. You will feel better once you start doing something. But the problem often, often comes a bit later. Because Youtube workouts, there are very, very few of them that have actually some thought behind there is some progression or some it's often, if I think like YouTubers or people who are making content for social media, it's not that actually, what the most effective strength workouts. They are not if you, if I would put my workouts into YouTube, I would say that, or you, I'm pretty sure you don't get nowadays, any any. There's five people watching it, or five views. And soon as you start to put some weird movements which looks maybe funny, maybe you get sweaty, but they which have little to nothing to do with with the progression or what people actually need. Those get a lot of use. They get more and like, of course, people who are putting workouts into YouTube or doing those sessions there. It's not that those are the best workouts. Very some thought process. The only reason why they put them is that they get views. Maybe somebody is then buying their program or whatever. But it's not the, it's not the, probably the best way, how I would do it, of course, because there is so many like, what, especially when it's a proper strength training, what things you have to include, how to plan your workouts, what exercises to do, how many repetitions, and so on. So it's, it's, it's strength training is like there's so many ways how you can do it, but. There is some kind of thought process like, how this month, how next month, how month after that is going to look like? And not just picking up some random workouts as maybe they are more interesting to do, but better results you get from a proper program. You know, you making a very good point there, because there's a lot of junk on YouTube. There really is. And I think when I hear you talk about it, it's I agree with when, also when people go on YouTube and, like I suggested, maybe get a workout, I think maybe they get overwhelmed. There's just too much stuff, and you can't sort through. And since they don't, since you guys don't, maybe not. Now, what is the best? Your point is really valid. I like that, yeah, and it's not, it's not always the searching the best like because you can't literally know. And I think that it's you know what I what I don't know. My definition for great workout program is, is that first of all, it have to be you have to like it, or somehow like strength training. You might not enjoy every single exercise, but it has to be some something that you are looking forward either, even if it's not the workout itself, but you love, at least the results and the feeling, how it makes you feel after, but and, and then it's because you can, I could, I did this mistake in the past. You know, you think that there's science behind and you write the best possible workout, but then you see that if people are not doing it, it doesn't help, even if you if you have the best workout ever, but if you hate doing it every single time and you are not looking forward into it, the best program doesn't help if it's not getting done. And so it, in my opinion, it has to be some kind of combination that it's enjoyable doing. There might be in a good workout, there are maybe one two exercises that you are not looking forward doing it, but they are there you are doing them. And usually those are the ones maybe what are helping you the most, like push ups or that type of exercises. But it has to be something that you are looking forward. Time is passing. When you do it, you feel great after and those kind of things. And if you have some kind of issues for, let's say, shoulders or knees or back pain or whatever, that they are addressed in this program that it's including it or mobility, work or or exercises to fix those issues. So then, when you when, when I think that's a strength program, when you get you get stronger. You You don't have as much pain as before. It gives you more energy. That's the perfect program, what you can have. And that's why people like us exist, because we know we have experience, we researched, we did the we're doing the science behind it. And you know, as a as a ice hockey player, you've learned a lot about your body and what what it takes to be competing in that level. And I think that that this is a valid point when people sometimes say, oh, it's cost so much money. It's worth every dollar, because you will not get this online or a YouTube or any of that that somebody really looks at you and says, This is what we need to do with you. Yeah, this is it's always like, it's for many people. You know, you looked at, why would I take a coach? Why would I hire a coach if I find this information also for free, but it's not. It's still like chat, GPT, all those things, they help you get all information. Is there, but it's not. It's not giving you, it's not too human, and it's not giving you, it it might give you even good program to follow up. But then you know, when something happens and you need that human connection. It's, it's not there. Like, if you, if you, you can, like, let's say, for example, exact exercises if you, if you are not sure how to do it. Like, either you get the trainer in your local gym or wherever, who can look your form how you are doing exercises, or you hire online codes like who is who you can send. For example, taking selfie video from yourself, doing exercise, you send it to coach. Your coach is looking it after and giving you feedback, giving you tips where you can improve what you need to do, sending you you know, those are those. Are things what? Still, there is no auto, automatic chat, GPT, who can, who can do those things? The other thing too, Turo, is that all those things you just mentioned, they don't help with the motivation that people stuck with because they have good intentions of doing things and but then when they, when they do their check in, and you and I always say, Have you done your homework? And then you see the eyes go, oh yeah, maybe once or twice. But I and you're like, Okay, good. You're here today. Let's have a talk. Let's get you going. Let's, let's do something so we actually take action and create the momentum for you to see the results that you come to us for exactly so I wanted to talk a little bit also about mindset and identity like because many women struggle with body image as they Age. And how do you help women shift from focusing on appearance to focusing on strength and health? Stop looking on Instagram and Tiktok. Be inspired. Yeah. Comparison is like, Oh, she's my agent. She does blah, blah, blah, and I want to do that too. And you're just have, you know, one example is I'm really terrible at pull ups. So pulling your own body weight up. When I was a bodybuilder, I was in top physical condition for that sport, and I should have had enough strength. I could not pull myself up more than three times, and I was, I was lean, muscle packed. I just could not do it physiologically. I just couldn't do it. I still can't do them. So when you see, when you're inspired by that, and you realize that you can't do that, it's okay, because we all we can't do the same things all the time. And when you look at somebody that is your age, and you're thinking, God, look at their body. They're so lean, oh, God, and they have all muscles, and they don't have flabby skin. Well, let me tell you, oftentimes we pose. And I said this conversation with my client the other day, where I showed a Pilates exercise with weights, and she says it really resonated with me, you have roles too. And I said, Of course, I have roles. I mean, everybody has roles. I said, but look at the picture that I posted where I just pose and talk about something. You don't see a role that I have, but in our normal bodies, this is what's normal, and we need to, I think we need to normalize the conversation about our bodies. We always keep looking at it from a negative point of view and saying, Oh, I'm not as strong as I used to. Oh, my arms are flabby. Oh, my whatever is, we always have something that we don't like about ourselves, and this is also fueled by the fitness and the beauty industry that we should live up to unrealistic standards that are impossible to achieve. I will never look like somebody that my age is on on on Instagram. Let's use Instagram. It doesn't matter what social media and they're doing things and I'm thinking that's a totally different body type. I would never be able to do this exercise or look that way, but I can look my best for where I am in life. Keep thinking that your body is not working against you. It's not here to punish you. Your body is here to serve you and help you live healthy and strong. So what joy? And we talked about joy earlier. What joy is it? I'm a grandma of two kids, of two kids, my two grandkids, and the best time I have is exercising with my four year old daughter, granddaughter, Lila, and we're doing some workout together, or we're running on the beach, or whatever it is we're doing. And then I'm lifting Oliver, who's a year old, and I can lift him overhead and and I mean, he weighs like, I think, five kilo. I don't know what he weighs, but he's heavy. And so what joy does that bring me to be able to participate in their lives? What joy does it bring me to be able to go for a long hike? What joy does it bring me to actually say I'm going to go for a long bike ride because I can, I have the strength, and I do not measure it by the industry standards. Yeah, that's so well said, because I wanted to ask you that what aging well means to you personally, but you kind of answered that question already. Oh, that's, that's. And what I what I love, it like, instead of thinking and like you said that looking the way how you your body is appearing when you start to focus on things your body is able to do and be actually grateful for those things, like, if you are able to like you said, you are able to play with your grandchildren. You are able to do long hike, going for biking at and feeling amazing at age of 65 that is, that is what I think, that is aging Well, not if you have roles somewhere in your body which are totally normal. And that is, that is just the way once you and that is, I think that is the hardest part for women to actually overcome and be okay, that you have frozen, that you are actually because it's often, often when you are, like, for sure, like, everyone have some kind of roles or or they are not happy with their body. Like that body dysmorphia, it's, it's so common, like, I think, if I would say that it's over for sure, over 90% of people have some part of their body who that they are not happy with, or they don't like, or there is something, but when you, when you start to focus on what your body is actually able to do, and if you like, like, often, I love having these conversations with My clients, like, who are like, okay, it's, of course, somebody is saying lot faster progress than they thought. That it's possible some of them, or most of them, I would say that progress is always a lot slower than they would like it to be. But when you start, when you shift that focus on body appearance, how fast scale is moving, or how fast the progress is, and you focus on a kind of performance based goals, like if you are able to do push up or two more or using heavier weights in your workouts, going for a longer hike or whatever, but kind of performance based goals, and then it's kind of funny how, how that shifts the whole focus. And then it's kind of side effect of following those performance based goals or strength goals, and pulling that shift away takes stress away from your mind, which also is very helpful. Lot help, more helpful than many people think. And then it's funny how all of sudden you are like, Oh, I was just trying to get as strong as possible for my age to be able to play with my grandchildren. And then all of a sudden that also that physical progress and appearance is there. It's coming kind of side effect, and not as the main purpose, just to get thinner or or losing scale weight. But I think with that, strength also comes confidence. Oh yeah, when you can do, you know, when I think we're it's spring here in Maryland, and people already bringing those big bags of mulch out. What? How? How can I'm like, I'm grabbing one of these, and my husband's like, No, I can carry it. I'm like, I'm, please forgive me, listeners, I always say I'm not a little old lady, but that's like, beyond the 80 years old. But I was like, I pick up that mulch bag that's 25 pounds. It's this heavy thing, and I can schlep it. So I know I'm confident that I can do this, because I've done my strength training in all all throughout the week, like now I can live everyday life, with the tasks that we are assigned in life. And I remember years and years ago, I went to the grocery store, and we have those huge two gallon milk jugs here. I mean, it's huge is, I don't know how much two gallon is in liters, but it's huge. And I had bought some milk, and it was on the conveyor belt, and this lady stood behind me, and she was definitely in her late 80s, early 90s. She looked at me in awe, and she said, Ah, you can lift this. And I was like, Yes, I can. And she says, Wow, you are so strong. And I said, Have you lifted this? She's like, No, I can't do this anymore. And let's just say, you know, age group was definitely way up there. But I'm like, I was. I felt so proud that I could lift those two gallon and I'm just like, Okay, now I'm taking it out of the store. The confidence that comes with that strength is incredible. On, yeah. Now those are like this. It reminded me similar stories like real, real life examples, like some women who who were going for groceries, like you said, and earlier they were together with husband, and husband was always carrying the heavy bags, and then, after doing a wild strength training, they said, Oh, I don't need you anymore. I can carry them myself. And those are just the just a small, yes, victory, small or they are not small victories. They're actually huge victories. And that those are giving that confidence. What you just mentioned that you know you are strong and you can, you can actually do several things in life, but one thing what I I'm curious to know what you what is, what are your best tips for someone was when women often, you know how to Stay motivated, when, when, especially when those results are not coming as quickly as they used to do. So what are your best tips? That is definitely something that so many of us battle, because it should be faster. It used to be faster, but as we age, also, like I said, our metabolism changes and things are happening slower all throughout. And the only thing I can say to this is, stick to the program. Don't give up. Don't think because you're not progressing the way you think, which is also something Whoever said that we should progress a certain way at a certain time. It's again, something I think that is made up by quick fix programs. I do six weeks of this program, and now I am lighter, stronger, measurable, stronger, and definitely see the difference in my body, which is not happening to 99% of women, even if you're if you're staying consistent, it's, oh, it's a cumulative over time, staying consistent. And I think about it like a snowball. You create a snowball, and you start rolling it, and as you keep rolling it, it gets heavier, so you have to put a little bit more work in, and as it gets heavier, you also can tell that you're seeing more results, but that can take years, and I want you not to get discouraged, and it has absolutely nothing to do with willpower when things just take long, but it has to do with consistency applied over time to get results and take every small victory as a win. You progress to the next pair of weights. Yay, you're picking up something easier than you have. Hurrah. You can get off the cheer much easier, like doing squats. Suddenly you just like, up, I'm up and about, look for those small victories. Because we all have our own timeframe in where we progress and where we change and and that's you mentioned that earlier, that when there is no progress and you've put enough work and time in, it's time to change the program. It's time to shake things up and give the body and the brain a new challenge, and not to give up and think, Oh, it's just me. It's me. I'm not good enough. I don't deserve to have this result and well, my friend has it, let's not go there. We don't need that. Yeah, no, that. I see it exactly the same way. It's just always like, you know, especially for people who want to look leaner or lose fat. And it's that scale is not moving. It's by far the most common struggle would I have that scale is not moving fast enough. And then you know, you are basically doing all the right things. You are strength training, you are taking care of food, but scale is not going as quickly as possible. And then especially here, you know you see, you might see some of your friend is doing something else, like some low carb or very low calorie diet and or taking something, some drugs or whatever. And you see, then you start to compare somebody's then they are posting in social media with this method. You lost 10 pounds, 10 kilos, whatever, in world record time in two or three weeks. And then you think that you have been doing this over a year, and I still haven't lost and then you think that, oh, I should. I have to definitely change this method. What I'm doing isn't. Not working. And this is often what I say and try to say that looked at person, we don't look if you look now, the results for the past, let's say month or two months, maybe that other person is winning, or is having a willpower, starving herself, able to lose weight. But if you look, let's say, one year from now, where that other person is, who got, who lost in the beginning, are they able to maintain it was that, is that lifestyle enjoyable? What they are doing like because many, many, many people, unfortunately, what I say that it's all about results. And then I will when you know, because it's it's all about willpower, that you are able to starve yourself or or do things for short period of time, and that we all might be able to do, but, but then, especially if you have a little bit willpower. But then the problem comes that how to actually maintain it, and if you never practice it, if you do it, if you lose weight or get results in a way that you can't imagine to do, let's say, five years from now, it's not matter of if it's matter of time before all those results are back. And at least from my experience, older, you get usually more it bounce higher. Weight goes back and it's getting every single trial is getting more like harder to get those results back again. So it's really all about finding a way, finding a method that you can imagine, which, which makes you feel better, gives you more confidence, more energy, maybe also some kind of results, but more importantly is that you are actually able to, or imagine to do it years from now. And I think too that many people set too big of goals that they their goal is so big that it doesn't come in chunk size pieces, because they just see that big end goal that they want to achieve, like running a marathon or whatever it is. Instead of saying, Okay, I'm starting with what I call baby steps, I instead of thinking I'm going to run really hard for really long, and I do this marathon. So start with with small steps like start a walk, start a long walk, go from a run walk, go into a run walk. Do something that challenges you a little bit more, and then see how your body adapts to it. And then from there, you see progression. And maybe in the end, you do not want to run that marathon, but that fitness that you have adapted to has increased over the time, looking for the goal, but also ultimately cutting back to smaller bells and saying that you run a 5k instead. Let's do the 5k let's, let's get that 5k under the belt, and let's see how things are going, and then we'll go look for bigger goals and and that's also where I think the frustration comes in, that I cannot run this marathon. I should be running 26.2 miles. But I I just, Oh, my God, dial it back. Go back to smaller steps that also you've probably encountered this oh, I've done this class, I've done this course, and it worked the first time. Now I'm going to do it again. Well, if it worked the first time, I don't have to repeat it, because if the first time I take something did teach me enough that I can sustain, maintain, like you said, What about in a year? In five years, then I don't need to go back to repeat the steps, because I already passed that, that point of of learning, and people say, Oh, now I have this goal. Now I reach this goal. Now I can't just party. I don't have to do anything anymore, but it's a lifestyle, and that I want people to understand that all are we talking today about is a lifestyle. It's a it's supporting the things that you want to do that bring your joy. That's very smart, very, very well said. So what about I want to to end this time it went so quickly, and I don't want to give you longer, but a couple practical advices still. So if someone is listening today in their 40s or 50s and want to stay strong for the next 2030, years. What are the three most important habits? They should start with three habits. I would say, eat protein with every meal. That's my religion. It's like when it comes to nutrition. Don't make it complicated. Don't over complicate. Things, half new protein with every meal, which helps your muscle growth and supports your your energy system. Also you have more energy. Start, definitely lift, lifting weights in one form or another. It does not matter to me, and it shouldn't matter to you, either, whether it's weights, body weight bands, whatever it is, but you need to push something heavy, like something needs to be pushing, because as we're pushing heavy things or pulling heavy things, we're breaking down muscle mass, and we're creating growth in our muscles to maintain the muscles that we already starting to lose through sarcopenia. And the third thing is that's not a fitness tip, that's Be happy, be positive. Love life. Love the things you do, love on your family. Love the activities you do. Bring joy, like Maria condo says, bring joy into your life, which changes everything about you. That's very, very good advice. And that message you shouldn't you can't say it's you. So what about then? Like, was people for somehow, like, I know even we just talked about like, that you shouldn't compare your journey to someone else, but I'm still always curious to ask, like, how does your own weekly training routine look right now? Obviously, it changes, probably, but at the moment, at the moment, let's see. Mondays, I do TRX and my physical therapy exercises, because I have arthritis, severe arthritis in my neck and my lower back, and I have a really bad knee as well. So I had to stop running three years ago or get a full knee replacement. So I decided not to run. So Monday is my PT and TRX, those yellow straps that you hang from the ceiling or from the or from the door, where you do basically body weight exercises with it. On Tuesday, I do upper body weights. So Tuesday is my heavy lifting upper body weights. On Wednesday, I do an hour of Pilates, whichever, like Cadillac reformer or just the math work. So if somebody doesn't know what all that is, it's just Pilates. On Wednesday. On Thursday, I do a combo upper body and lower body. On Friday, is my rest day. On Saturday and Sunday, we usually do our long workouts. That means on Saturday, I probably hike through the park that's close by. It's a very hilly cart. So I hike my six miles there, pretty much. And then on Sunday, or we switch it up, on Sunday, we do our long bike rides, and oftentimes we take our bikes, bikes out to the country, and then we ride for 30 miles. So these are our long workouts at the moment. So that's what my week actually, pretty much looks like all the time. Oh, nice. That's, that's, I love it. I loved it. It's, of course, it might sound for someone to know I never have so much time, but it's, it's, it's a lifestyle. And like I said that to it, those all I loved all elements. What? What if you think that what you included like as, obviously, you are a coach, it's you probably enjoy doing it, but that you have some kind of mobility, taking care of your body, some form of resistance training, and then you have your cardio, what you enjoy the most, if it's a hike or biking, Whatever you inside? So those are the elements. What are so crucial and that even you can't have all of them, then do them a little bit less. But those are, oh, I forgot, I forgot to mention on Monday and on Wednesdays, I also walk on Monday a three mile walk, and on Wednesday I do a four mile walk. So as fast as, as fast as humanly possible. No, that's that's even better, even better, always, all right, but it's worth. It's worth every you know, when you hear what I do, it doesn't matter guys it but over years, over 40 years, I've learned so many things that I can apply, and you can do, too, and the workouts don't have to be super long. Don't think 45 minutes or an hour. If you're doing this, you can do 2030 minutes. It adds up over time. So and it's, that's so true, and I it's, it's something what I, I personally, had to overcome like that that could work out have to be an hour or one and a half or it's not even worth of it to start something with less 20 minutes. And now I'm like that. It's very rare that I get the especially strength training that I work out for full hour. It's at most 45 minutes, and more often than not, it's like 30. In it or it's just doing the what is the bare minimum I know I need to be doing so Heidi, thank you so much for sharing your experience and insights today. I think one of the most important messages from this conversation is that getting older doesn't mean getting weaker or less capable. In many ways, it's actually an opportunity to train smarter and take better care of our bodies. So strength, mobility and consistency become even more important as we age, and it's encouraging to see more women realizing that they can stay strong and active well into their 50s, 60s and beyond. So if people want to learn more about your work or connect with you, where they can find you, and I know you just you have a brand new or relatively new book so where people can find you, so you can find me anywhere on social media, just Google my name, Heike Yates, H, e, i, k, e, y, A, T, E, S, and you can find anything about my programs. Pursue your spark, my what I do. We can find my podcast, also called pursue your spark. And you can buy my book. Pursue your spark anywhere where books are sold, and my book is in soft cover as an ebook and also an audio book, so you can take me on a walk with you. And yeah, please reach out to me, because I'm literally hanging out everywhere, mostly these days, I'm mostly on Instagram, LinkedIn and on YouTube. Nice. I will put all those links to your show notes so you can check, I guess, book, website and social media channels from show notes. And for everyone who listens, if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who might benefit from it. And thank you, as always, for listening and see you in the next episode.