Turo Virta: 0:58

Hey, welcome back to the podcast, and today, I'm joined by Samia, some someone many of you will relate to deeply. Over the past year, Samia and I have talked about a lot about fitness, food, emotions, grief and identity, and what stuck me most is that her journey is not about being perfect, it's about about that becoming honest. So in this episode, we talk about what it feels to like, to start again, to deal with the loss and to face pretty, to face body image struggles and to slowly rebuild trust in yourself. Samia, I'm really grateful you are here and I'm we haven't been talking for a while, and let's start with something simple. How are you really doing these days?

Unknown: 1:58

Okay, so really, honestly, not really great on the surface level things, things carry on when you have have grief, right? So you just carry on. But every time I if I did stop and meditate, or if I did stop and feel calm, the there is like a wave of tears, and it's like surface level, I could easily fall into it, and I've had, like, a major wobble. So I live in Yangon, in Myanmar, I've been here six years, and it's very difficult because I've I've never, I've never stayed so long in one place. Normally, the maximum I've ever stayed is like four years. So on top of that, on top of grief, on top of dealing with all the nuances of work. And as you know, like teaching is such a giving job. You have to give so much of yourself. And I feel like my my cup is half empty. So when I do react with students, I see a version of myself I don't recognize because I did. I used to be really patient, and now, how am I really I'm not I'm not patient. I don't feel very kind. I feel like I want to hide. I want to I sleep a lot. Yeah, that's basically how I am, and because of that, I had a major wobble last week where I was like, right? I don't think I can work. I don't want to work anymore, but I don't have a job or anything. I didn't I don't have plans, and it's so unlike me, and that version of myself is a person I don't recognize, and that's also so scary. So, so that's why I can admit now, like I'm not doing well, and that's okay,

Turo Virta: 3:50

and that is, that is okay to say that you are not doing well, because this is often there are not many, many people who are telling like, if you ask that, how you are, how you are doing, is that I'm okay or I'm fine? And this is something, what is what many people are not willing to commit so thank you so much for for sharing that. So how? How does it like, if you think about last year, like, what word would describe that?

Unknown: 4:29

What what worked last year? No,

Turo Virta: 4:31

what word would describes it, okay, well,

Unknown: 4:36

I find that interesting. What word? It's always trying to it's so difficult to put it into one word, what? Yeah, it's just like, it is unsettling right now, but it is, I feel like the journey that I need to be on is the one I'm in. Like I hold presence for it, like I hold it with my in my hands. So I'm an art teacher, so I feel very blessed that have the opportunity to, like, sit in that uncomfortable emotion and just hold it. I describe it as a tangled ball of wool, like, because last year I was I feel like before, before dad passing away, I felt I was fine. I was bit uncomfortable. My job was okay. I could, I could ride through it. I was a bit bored with work. And now what it does is like all of the tangled lives that we have at work, our persona, our persona at work, our persona with our friends. It's all all tangled, and there's no that's why the to have, like, one word, I don't know. It could be uncomfortable, tangled. It's not dis is distressing, but it's not the time. And so. What I've tried to do with like, the words that sit in my soul is like, I have the opportunity to make art from it, and that I find that that very it. Didn't think it was a big deal. I just, like, wrote it down on some clay, and I was like, oh, okay, I feel much better. That's why I can say it.

Turo Virta: 6:16

Yeah, that is, that is a beautiful, like, some way, in a art of expressing those emotions. And it's, it's that somehow just get them out and not leave them inside. So I want to, like little bit like you mentioned there shortly about grief and everything and but when we started working together, we have been working, is it now, like two years or even more? And when we first started working together, what was your relationship with your body like?

Unknown: 6:57

Oh, it was not good. It was terrible. It was like, it's like, looking into a mirror and seeing a reflection that you don't recognize, like you really see yourself. But it's very easy to ignore it, because a mirror only if you only see a mirror in the bathroom. It's only from like the neck up, or, like the waist up, and the only time really self see yourself naked, or whatever is, we're in the when you go have a shower or a bath, go, go have a bath, and it sits very uncomfortably, like it's like embarrassment and shame, or like the roles of the fat, like, sit awkwardly in chairs, and the negative chat that you have in your head like, oh, that's that chair doesn't fit you. You shouldn't sit there. Don't say that. People will judge you. You should be really funny because you're really fat and things like that. So the negative chat was high, and it can be suppressed sometimes, but not all the time. And I just didn't know I feel like your mind and your heart know your like your mind knows when something's wrong. Like I cried often and I couldn't, it's like I couldn't work out where it was coming from, but deep, deep down, you know, like you're not happy with your weight, and you can't, you can't go on like this.

Turo Virta: 8:22

Yeah, yeah, no. And this is thank you so much for sharing like. These are very like, so many people are struggling with this, and they take this kind of issues underlying like, because it's, it's easy to say that just broke out. Eat healthier, start doing something. But if you, if you, you have huge mental struggles like you are not. You feel ashamed like you, you said that is so. Thank you so much for telling that loud, because there is not many people who are actually willing to commit that or talk about these things they think that, or many people what I know like, I don't know if it's your case too, but you feel like kind of close you don't want to share these things, that you think that you are the only person who struggles, or there are not many of them and and then it feels so hard to share these stories and and how you actually are doing. So yeah, thank you. So you mentioned that exercising what? What did exercise, exercise mean to you back then.

Unknown: 9:38

So when it started, oh, there was so much like pressure, because, like our childhoods, our childhood, I feel it felt like my childhood fit, like set the course of how I should be. Like my dad used to push me in the gym, or not even in a gym, but he used to push me to do lots of exercises, and so when I did, when I did start, there was a sense of pride. But then, like, it gets lost in all the emotion, childhood, emotion that comes out. So, like, I could do it, and I was I realized that, Oh, I'm so strong. But I did. I never noticed, because you think that when you want to get fit, you should be thin, all of those things, all those internal, like pressures that we have. I had was to be fit, to be healthy, you should be slim. But then as I get going, I was like, No, I want to strong, like, I just want to be strong. And that's the bit that I was that's what surprised me, is when I went, we have this gym at school. It's very well organized. We have everything. And because I, like, was able to show you with photographs and have the set pieces of like, what to do, how to. Do it, and I was so worried at the beginning that might hurt myself. And of course, I did, of course, but I learned from it. And my Yeah, it was, I think, with the I had to get over in the initial like, to get into freedom of how I am in the gym, I had to get over some hurdles emotionally, like I sometimes used to be in there, and I'd do some weights, and then the surface, my surface, tears would come, and I'll be like, I don't know why I feel like this. And I'll be like, No, I know how I feel like this, because Mum and Dad used to push me when I was a kid, always, and now I have it as my armor. I'm like, Yeah, I can do the gym. I don't do it all the time, but I can do it. And so it's like, it's like, you have to change your mindset of how how things are perceived. Yes, I do get emotional in the gym, but I think that when I talk to other people, they have it when they go running, it's like a mental relaxation in the brain. And we just try,

Turo Virta: 12:04

yeah, no, and you have been, this is like, like, you have been amazing, by the way, and, and I'm extremely proud of you. How you goes. I remember when you said that you were, like, really, really scared. First time going to the gym with younger people, you were scared that you are hurting yourself. You are taking spot from somebody else. You are not you don't know what you should be doing there. And when you are around with the younger males, guys who are working out in front of the mirror and flexing all the muscles, and you are there, like that, like that. What am i belonging here? And I still remember Virta. I tried to tell you that, you know, usually those are, those are thoughts that are only in your head that nobody else cares, like and, and if somebody is telling you would, which I don't believe will happen, but if somebody would tell you that, oh, what you are doing here, then you said that, yeah, I'm trying to get healthier. And if they are, if somebody is laughing or, or, I don't know what reaction you could have for that, that answer, then you already understand everything from that person that that is he doesn't, or that person doesn't, understand everything. So that was a I hope you are proud of yourself taking that step, because I know that it was anything but easy.

Unknown: 13:34

Yes, I am proud of myself. Yeah. And when I used to go, I did really, although it's hard, I did enjoy it. And then when I left, I feel good, a little bit sore, or I think it was the more shock that I could hold stuff, even after a while, like your body remembers. So I was like, Oh yeah, I'm not that unfair. It's okay. Yeah.

Turo Virta: 13:58

And then what you mentioned, like getting getting stronger, instead of like that, you know, you should be slim, more or something, to changing, changing that mindset, that said that you want to become stronger. And then I remember vividly, like, when you were telling like examples, when you started to see those results in a real life that you were in in a plane, and first time, able to get your luggage without help on top shelf, and like, oh, that have never happened. I always had to ask help. And now I'm able to lift that by myself, even it's, uh, heavy I was, how, how? How did you start to feel when you start to notice that kind of things?

Unknown: 14:46

Oh, it. I mean, even now, it still happens, like, I haven't been to the gym for a long time, but it still happens now. Back then it was just like such a shock, like climbing, climbing a flight of stairs with shopping, or, like, lifting a bag we have heavy things in the art room and just being able to lift it. The other one that I was really shocked about, it was opening opening jars. Yeah, I remember, and you'd think that, Oh, you don't need to be like, you don't need to have any strength, but you really do, because the when you're gripping something and you're lifting it, there's pressure in your hand, like to have fingers all the way to the fingertip, not just the palm of the hand. That's what I never realized, all of those little things that are happening in the gym, opening jars for my mom, opening like, we have these really old, glazed jars that have very old, like paint in them. And before, I could never open them even like, you know, you do the you do the technique, whack it with a knife, put it under hot water, hit it on the table. And during, like, art lessons, someone has to open the jars. And before, I used to be like, oh, please ask. Someone stronger, but now I'm like, pass it. It's not like, it doesn't hurt. It burns in the hand, but I do it, and they're like, whoa. And I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah. Forgot. I never used to be able to do that. No.

Turo Virta: 16:14

But those those kind of moments that I hope you are proud of yourself, becoming that person who is always asking that, who could you I'm not the strong person. Could you? Could somebody help me to open this that give it to me and right away?

Unknown: 16:31

And I make jokes with the kids, because kids are kids. Yeah, you help me. You help me open it, and they're like, I couldn't, it wasn't moving. And when I got it open, and, you know, in the in the midst of, like, teaching you just like, you're like, oh. And then you carry on and yeah. And then you remember, fascinating, yeah, no.

Turo Virta: 16:52

Ghost thoughts are like, and then, for sure, kids are like, Wow, you are so strong. Oh, but this is so cool.

Unknown: 16:59

Yeah, yeah, I and also, like to add on to that, I do, I deliver lessons on electric wheel throwing. So we have a, like, a pottery wheel. And before, like, I didn't, I had surgery and I didn't, I tried it straight after, and I just, I had, like, no core muscle, and so leaning forward, and, like, leaning forward, and then using hands, I just, I couldn't do it, and I remember, let one less ago, right? I'm sorry, that's okay. I'm sorry I can't do this. So someone stepped in. And then after that, as I got stronger, I was like, Oh yeah, yeah. Look at me. Go, like, I lean forward. I tell these kids, you have to use your core, you have to use your fingers, like pulling the clay into, like, bowls. And, you know, it's crazy. These kids, they're like, whoa. And I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah, this is really cool, because now, like, it's like, this is what people don't tell you, is the confidence that you get from yourself. It like bleeds into everything, like it bleeds into like your day to day. So thing, even before, I would be really conscious of making a mistake, a mistake, and then the negative chit chat would start. But then, because now I realize, like feeling good doing like these functional, like exercises where she actually can do stuff, like, bled into my like, my work and my private life. Was like, oh, okay, it's all right. Oh shit. I dropped the ball. Oh my god. Oh, I dropped. I dropped, like, some oranges in the supermarket. It like fell out of a bag. It was like, Oh God, never mind. Pick it up. It's like, it's not your fact that you dropped it right? It's not that just happens, yeah, and like, oh, oh god, I kicked it. I kicked I kicked the Kiwi once, and then, like, I lost it under the thing. I was like, oh, never mind. In the supermarket, never mind. Go tell someone. Yeah. It's yeah, yeah, these little moments of like, absolute clarity, like,

Turo Virta: 19:01

oh yeah, no, those are so crucial moment and to understand and like that. What is like that it can it's not the like. You turn it probably like, often, in a way you want to hear it like, or you think that, you know, oh, this happened because of, I'm fat or, or I'm over it. But then when you really think it like, oh, this happens. It's that is no reason. And I love that. Like, what you said about that confidence, how it shows up in a real life, like, when you, when you, of course, when you start to be able to do those like tasks, like simple daily tasks, like opening that jar, lifting your luggage, or, like so many examples, going flight of stairs without taking a breath, what you were not able to do before. And then, of course, how it shows up is in your confidence. And then you know that change is really everything. So it's not only about, like, building some muscle and and everything. So it's for me, like that what you, like you said, that just becoming stronger and that it's it helps in so much more than many people are even aware. Yeah, so if, if you like could if you think that now we were a little bit reflecting back if you think like that, what if you could describe your old self in one sentence. What would it

Unknown: 20:47

be? Think my one sentence was like riddled with shame, like surface level. Sammy is fine, very funny. Laughs a lot, but underneath the surface is just so much shame, embarrassment and sadness.

Turo Virta: 21:11

So was there? Was there like that? It's Thank you. First of all, telling, of telling that I would if you think is there was there a moment when something shifted for you?

Unknown: 21:26

Yeah, I think it's the first time that I went to the gym. After this, after the initial like the tears come, I used to pick the most unusual times to go, like, the most awkward times, because I didn't want to, I didn't want to have anyone there. I didn't want to be seen. I would go at like, 11 o'clock, or in the morning, I would be, like, really early. Or in evening, I would wait at school, so I would know that nobody at school would be there, so five o'clock, and I'd have this, like, release of, like, you are not allowed to leave until you go to the gym. Because I was the only could get get through it, and then as I got through it, I was like, Oh, it's okay. Like, they, they're in the old world. It's okay.

Turo Virta: 22:13

Yeah, yeah, no, that is so powerful, like it's, it's, and if you think like it's basically one decision, right? That you know, like you said that you how you are telling yourself that, no, it's okay. I need to get there. Yeah. So when did you, when did you then first notice that, like, I'm not the same person anymore. Was it that moment when you were or I don't want to tell

Unknown: 22:44

it, oh, okay, okay, that's interesting. It was the first flight of stairs I took with shopping, with, with, like, a week's worth of shopping where it's like, I would prefer to take the lift. And then I was, I thought, oh, let's just see you can just stop. It's okay. And, and that's when I started to change. I think I lifted something that I wasn't meant, that I just didn't think I could, I could do it, and I had to pick it up and, like, stretch above my head. And it was so instinctive, like your my brain knew that I could do it before my my my heart did, oh, oh, my God, that's so cool. And I think I told you, I was like, Oh, I did this. I carried downstairs. Like, before we're walking, I was, I was always a bit like, cautious on the stairs, because I think, like, we're always worried about falling. And I'd always get worried, like, how I'm gonna fall, like, you have to make sure your hands are out. But then I'm like, oh, you know, I think it's okay.

Turo Virta: 23:46

Yeah, yeah, no. And I remember when you when you told so many times, like, in a school, like, we're being scared like that you know you have to stop in a stairs or like, like, we always talk many times that you know you don't need to take stairs every single time. If you are not, if you used to take elevator, and then, if you are like, step by step, you are starting to change these habits. It doesn't mean that all of sudden, if you go with go from, I don't know how many floors you have to climb, but let's say that it would be from first to fifth floor. You do that 10 times in a day. And if you you can like expectation is not that you are not using elevator anymore, but maybe start instead of taking 10 out of 10 elevator, you take you go once, twice, maybe three times per day, depending, of course, on everything but those small things, what you started to do you, I hope you are looking back now and say that, Wow, I did amazing, or I did it so well, yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 25:01

And I think it's like, it's like, how do I explain it? It's like, not like a drug. It's like a feeling that when, when you start, it's so rare and it feels so warming because it's just so unusual, and it's a surprise, because it comes out of nowhere. And then as you get going, it happens more and more often. So the pizzazz, you know, the niceness of it, disappears. Then as you as and then obviously, with gym or stairs or whatever, like, who's I can't I don't like climbing stairs, to be honest. But then when you do do it, it's like, oh yeah. It's like, Oh, I forgot that feeling again. Oh yeah, oh yes, I can do it. And it is like, don't get me wrong, I'm still wheezing at the top of the stairs. And I'm like, Okay, let's go. Let's try. Just have a breath. And I'm like, who cares? Like, there's cameras everywhere. Who cares? No one's really watching you. Mm. And, yeah, yeah.

Turo Virta: 25:59

So what do you like this is, there's, like, so many changes I want to touch on, like, but one of this, like, what you just mentioned, is that how you speak to yourself, so what changed in how you speak to yourself?

Unknown: 26:19

I talked to myself like that. I'm like, I'm a friend before. I didn't, I didn't. It was like, my like, the fat sister, like before I never, and I never even thought that that was even a thing. I just thought that's how it is. But now I'm like, okay, it doesn't matter. This is okay. It doesn't matter. So I talk to myself like I'm, I'm the friend and with kindness as well. And sometimes, yeah, like, sometimes we have not so good days and it's okay. I'm like, Oh, you want to go eat the chocolate. Go eat it. And then when, when I go there, and I'm like, I want to eat that chocolate. I'm desperate. I buy it and like, and then I forget that it's in the fridge. I like, I forget that I've I was like, yeah. I was like, where are those mints? I thought I bought some. Let's go buy some more, because I want it. You want them? Okay, well, let's go get it. And then then I put it somewhere. And then I get distracted by something else, yeah, and then I thought I bought mint. And then it happens again. I'm and then I open the fridge, or whatever, and I'm like, oh, there it is. I can't believe I forgot I had Christmas steak in my fridge. My friend gave it to me, and I had it in in foil, like he gave it, oh, cup of tea. I got baked, and then I put it in the fridge. That was, like, two weeks ago, and only yesterday I ate it. So isn't that crazy? Yeah, every day I was like, Oh, I'm gonna have that Christmas cake. I'm gonna have a Christmas cup of tea. And then, and then what happens is, you like, cook dinner, you like, you go out with your friends, you come home, or you go to, like, wherever, and you come home late, and it's like, no, I can't enjoy that cup of tea now, like, it's too late, too late to have a tea. And then I was like, No, I don't want the Christmas cake. I want to have it like, I want to eat it slowly, yeah, yeah. So it's like, permission, I think, and friend and talking to myself with with kindness, yeah, okay, you want to eat it go. No big deal.

Turo Virta: 28:25

Yeah, there is like that is a such a big shift, because we are, like most of us, we are so good at talking ourselves like calling us with all kinds of names like that, if, especially if something is not going as planned, you know, you end up overeating, eating something, what you shouldn't be doing or not exercising, or whatever, whatever it might Be, and then you are like that, you fucking idiot. What you did again, like that. You are so gross and ugly and whatever you are talking to yourself. But then if you're really, really like you said that, you start to talk with yourself, like how you talk to your best friend like you won't, you wouldn't tell to your best friend, if you if your best friend is coming to you that, you know, I ended up eating cake, or like, five pieces of cake, and now I feel really bad about it. Probably your best friend wouldn't tell that, you idiot what you did, like now go to punish yourself, but your friend would say that, you know it's okay, it happens now, try to get back on track, like how you should be, and learning from that mistake. But those things are very hard to tell to ourselves, and that is, I think, such a big shift in you, what what you have been. I hope you are proud of yourself.

Unknown: 30:03

Yeah, I think about, like, the impact that you had on me, because I don't think I ever said thank you, but I really do say thank you, because the impact is still even now, right? So every so my my not my rule, but my mindset is like, Okay, you go wild, go get drunk, whatever. But every morning I have that smoothie, and it sets me up like it's a restart, like a like a restart. So I have my smoothie, mix it with, like, what you call it, some protein powder with some and banana, and then, like, I have a coffee, and I had four dates, just because I felt like it. And I was like, Wait, and some vitamin C, a vitamin D tablet, I'm done. Like, I'm set up for the day. Yeah, and again, every day is a new day. Like, yeah, wouldn't. Yes, oh, I yesterday, I, you know, I ate some, like, some I ate some chips, or whatever. It's okay, it's done now. Don't change it.

Turo Virta: 31:05

No, no. And then it's, it's like, that. It's one of the power, most powerful things, what you can do is that, regardless what happens day before you start the next day exactly same as nothing would happen.

Unknown: 31:21

Yeah, nothing's happened. It's not a big deal. Yeah, and I haven't gone crazy with any like, I haven't some sometimes, yes, I do overeat, yes, but the negative talk is more detrimental. It's more damaging than the food itself.

Turo Virta: 31:38

Yeah, yeah. I that is so well said and so true. So you once, I still remember you told me that walking actually became more than exercise. What did that walking start to represent for you.

Unknown: 32:00

I think it was that it's not the fact that you're going from A to B, it's beyond. I'm not just using it to get from home to school or school to home. Before it was a way of like transport from A to but now it's not really like that. It's just, I feel like walking around my ear, right? Sometimes I listen to something, sometimes I don't. Yeah, it's, it's like, I don't know how to explain it. It's, it's more than transport. It's not like you're moving to get somewhere, like, moving to nowhere, getting to nowhere.

Turo Virta: 32:41

Yeah, yeah, no, because this is, this is, and it's, it's because it's how that started to change. Like, because you, if I remember, like in the beginning, like you started the first time, to track your steps, like, how many steps you are doing? And then you were like, that, you know you are walking little bit, and then I don't know how many steps you had, like, on your daily basis, it was like, three, 4000 or Yeah,

Unknown: 33:12

it starts with nothing, because I never tracked, like, I've never tracked anything. And so I was like, oh, and a surprise. It was very surprising. Yeah, the negative chat is, you're you lead a sedentary life. You don't move anywhere. You probably don't. You probably do less than 100 steps. It's like, and then it would be like, comparing to the past. It's like, when you were in Doha and you had a car, and all you did was you drove a lot, yeah, yeah. But that's not true, because I don't have a car,

Turo Virta: 33:45

yeah, so you have to, but is it? Was it then, like, was it when you started to see, like, chasing some numbers or tracking? Was it, like, how, how did it feel like that? You said that. You said, actually a step goal, what you what you had?

Unknown: 34:02

Like, Yeah, you told me once that someone tracked the all their steps. And I was like, and when you told me, I was like, what? How I was like, trying to work out how to do it. I bought a purse, like, to put my phone in and make sure, like, at school, I was collecting all my steps, and then it's, like a competition very quickly turned into, like, right, okay, I'm on 4000 I know that if I would like, if I go, like, up the stairs or down the stairs three flights, I can make it. And then at the time, like, I started to know, like, how many steps it was from, from here to here, I was like, walk fast, or if I walk slow, yeah, and then that was quite enjoyable.

Turo Virta: 34:46

Yeah, it's that kind of competitive person with within yourself, that you compete against yourself, that you know you said, you said, the goal, like, I still remember, like, was it because we, I It's there are, like, either daily calls or weekly calls, total amounts. And then you are like, that, okay, now I have, I want to get 5000 steps on average per day, so 35,000 per week. And then you start to chase those numbers and and then you're like, Oh, I'm missing 500 steps. What I need to do to get those 500

Unknown: 35:22

remember, I used to, like, walk around my apartment to hit, hit the numbers. And the last time I ever did that was when it was covid and we couldn't leave, and so I worked out a circuit in my apartment from my bedroom, like, like weaving in and out like a figure of eight. Remember I did that? Yeah, determined. I want it. I want that number, yeah, yeah, no, I'm the same.

Turo Virta: 35:48

Like sometimes, like when I had a, like, some phone number, or is it 10,000 or whatever, or it's. Especially during the covid, when you couldn't move so much, and then you are like that 10 o'clock in the evening, like, just, I'm missing 500 steps that I it means that I need to walk with in apartment for 10 minutes, just quickly that I get my steps or activity goals. Like, it's, feels kind of like, if you really think it, that it's kind of stupid thing to do, like that you are 10 o'clock in the evening getting your steps in but if you really like somebody's listed that this is so stupid. But actually, what I when I think it back, that this these kind of things, it's, it's not only about like, does it make a difference if you get those couple 100 steps more, probably not. But it's it's more. It's more about like that, actually setting a goal and following through, keeping promises, what you make to yourself.

Unknown: 36:52

That's true. That is true. And I found that it was obviously, yeah, you're right. It doesn't do anything like, now I think about it. No, it doesn't. But like finding ways to get that extra 1000 steps. Because, obviously, I realized that my, because my apartment is quite small, I realized that if I walk up and down the corridor, like 630 I could probably make it in less than, less less time. And so I would do that. And then, because it's like, there's cameras in the corridor, like, the management would come in and be like, they'll turn all the lights on. I was like, No, I don't want to be seen. And then I was like, I don't care. Like, I need to get my steps in. Yeah, you know, I'm like, I don't care. Like, before I must walk in darkness. When you see it from their perspective, they're like, thinking it's like an intruder, like, it's like, no, actually, it's me. I live here. Like, yeah, it's the amusement of it,

Turo Virta: 37:50

yeah, no. And you are like, it's, it's all these things, let that you were able to, you were walking, you were in a long hike, and there were so many things, what you were able to do, yeah, after starting, like, really from almost,

Unknown: 38:09

I did a little bit of the Camino, Yeah, yeah. That feels like a weird dream. Yeah?

Turo Virta: 38:19

Yeah, yeah. And that was like, So tell a little bit about that journey.

Unknown: 38:23

What? Oh, my, Lordy, Lord, where do I start that was, that was a thing that after surgery. So I just tell you that I had, I had a cyst on my ovary. It was during the time that I was with Turo and, yeah, and it was such a shock and a surprise, and explained a lot about what was happening with my my my health. I had like, 50 P size bald spot on my head, and I was very stressed, tired, very, very stressed. And I had like this, like unusual pain in my knee, which I thought was because I was overweight, and people had said, Your osteoarthritis, which fuelled the negative chat in my head. And so whilst I was with you, I was trying to untangle that I had one ovary removed and the cyst was removed from both I had two little a big one and a little one cyst. And so because of that, I had an opportunity in my life at 40 to do something quite big. And so that's some just after the surgery, I was talking to friends over breakfast, and I was like, Oh, I'm thinking of doing the Camino. And it just they were like, instantly, these two ladies were like, Oh, we can do it with like that. That's how it started. And I was like, because this one is a Australian, one is a American, and then me the British. I was like, okay, instantly paranoid, I think I'm fit enough. Like, that's negative chit chat. Number one, I don't think I can do that, but we went through the motions. I bought the backpack, I got the shoes, I got the stuff and etc. And obviously, like, I I didn't have a clue. I didn't have a clue. What I mean is I didn't have the clue of how much impact it had on my life and how much it changed me. And so we started in France. We all got, we all flew to Paris. We all got, we all collected in Paris. We got the train down. We started at, like, I can't even remember all the names and when I and there was so much chat, like, in my brain about, like, how bad I would be, how I couldn't do it. And in the end, what happened was, you just organize yourself from one spot to the next. You don't look at the big picture. And I think that's how I, like my life has turned out now, is like, rather looking at all of it like a huge. Among us, land of like, This is shit. He's like, No, you're only looking at three kilometers from here to here, yeah. And then you just need to make sure that, if you're at, like, point A, you need to organize your accommodation to point B, and that is two kilometers and you can make it, yeah, rather than looking at, oh, Jesus, I can't do 171 miles. How am I going to do that? It was like, no. That was no. And everyone I spoke to was like, it was like, therapy. Honestly, I do recommend it for everyone and anyone. But that negative chat in my brain was on like, high alert. I when I started, I was crying because I thought, oh. And then. And the thing that we like we don't ever admit, or I never admit it, is how much I compare myself to others. Yeah, how much, how much now I don't do it or see how I see myself through the eyes of others, and that that is so dangerous, because it like I felt like they don't give a shit, and they were so nice to me, yeah, and that's where I found like strangers were being so nice to me that I didn't have the I was never that kind to myself. Wow. And so that's how it changed. And on top of that, I was really sick, but I didn't know, because I live in Yangon, there was a parasite in the water, but I didn't know. I just thought this, this is just, I can't do it. Don't think I can do this. I'm so sick like a parasite. Who knew I didn't know for three weeks and this I didn't also know that I had so much strength in myself that I could get halfway through the Camino before I realized I cannot carry on. So let me just tell you what a parasite is. A parasite is when you drink some water or you eat something that has a bug in it, and the bug sits in your intestines. So although I wasn't eating, like, I wasn't, I really wasn't eating. I'd, like, have half an orange juice, like, cup half a little bit of croissant, and it would get me for three kilometers. And then it's, like, really bad tummy problems, like really bad career, a headache, and I slept a lot, like I'd sleep like 11 hours. I just thought, I'm so unfit. Like, sleeping like I would arrive at like, one I'd leave really early because I was paranoid that I would get sunburned. I don't want to be sunburnt, and I'm not fast, yeah, so, but, and I didn't have the words. I didn't know. I didn't know. Have any Spanish. I had no I had no idea how to say anything. And so then from there that I would be really poorly in the tummy, I've have some sort of some food just to, like, Tide me over. And then couldn't understand, like, what was wrong with my stomach. And I was drinking a lot, and just very, very run down, like, really exhausted, until, like, I think in the end, I was in, I can't remember. I was in a little place, and messages, if you like, we had a school WhatsApp like on there, and I didn't know, because I wasn't in contact with anyone, and I was walking on my own. And every day I wrote poems like I wrote poems anything that I saw, and the biggest, always, the biggest takeaway, is it's okay to say like you're not doing well. Yeah, the kindness that I've had from others was the most important drive I have ever felt. Like the the in my heart I would be like, telling the universe. I don't think I can do this. I really don't think I can do this, and then and then, or getting some fruit from a van who was selling like, piles of, like, apricots that this smell was intense, and, like, I can only really, I think it can have one before my stomach explodes. I was like, right one? And then I tried to pay and they're like, that's okay, because you can tell I'm a Camino Walker, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the reason why it catches me is because I never had that. I never I never had that kind of kindness and like, care for myself, and it was the fact that someone did it to me, regardless of how I looked, is important, is always, always think about it. And I had so many free things because of it. Like, not because I was like, oh, I want that free thing, but I had that because I was able to say, like, I I'm not. Well, I've got, I've had, like, diarrhea for two weeks or three weeks. I, you know, I ended up crying in a pharmacy with using Google Translate, like, I am not really well, and I wanted to be like, I don't think this is because I'm unfit. I think I'm really, really sick. Yeah, yeah, and, yeah. And I went to hospital. I had a translator, I got friends, and I ended up break. The reason why I realized, oh, I have a parasite, because I just didn't know. I just thought I'm fit. I thought, God, my body really doesn't want me to do this. This is so bad, like I was sleeping like 1112, hours. Then having organized, get everything, yeah, I only had like, one change of clothes, two pairs of unclear hiking sticks poking out of my backpack. I felt like so out of place, but, and then in the end, I was like, No, I'm part of this life. I'm supposed to be here, yeah, supposed to meet these people. I'm supposed to do this. And then it was from a WhatsApp message from a from a friend, a colleague. I had a pin in my Google Maps that said Dijon, and it was a pin, like a hiking pin. I was like, that's totally off my map. I don't know why that's there. And it was very, very close. And I was like, like, maybe an hour away by train. And I was like, Oh, it's a seaside town. Oh, my God, imagine you could just have cups of tea and, like, recoup. Like, just have cups of tea, sit on the beach, cry, you know, be near water, and just have a break. So I was like, you should have a break. And then I was only ever thinking about it. And then in the school WhatsApp message, someone put a photo of Gihon. I've arrived in Gihon. Hope everyone's having a great time three weeks into their summer break. And I was like, What the fuck some someone I know? Is there someone know? Is there someone I know? That was like, the biggest like relief. So as I was like, I bought, I bought a train ticket. I bought a train ticket, ticket to Gihon. I organized Airbnb with a kitchen so at least I could, like, have soup that was my drinks, cups of tea and have soup. And it had a washing machine. That was it. I was like, I really need a washing machine. I don't want to hand wash anymore. Any more stuff my hands, you know. And I was like, Okay, you can do this. You can totally do this. So as my train is like, I have to leave the hotel in, like, maybe 20 minutes. Yeah, this, this, this lady, this American lady. She's like, I've arrived in Gihon. So I send her a separate message, hey, I'm on my way to Gihon. Are you there? And she's like, Yes, I'm there. And it's her and her husband, both American. They're in an Airbnb. Gihon is quite small in Spain. And they were like, oh yeah. She was like, oh my god, we can get great food. We can eat tapas, because that was my plan. Is to walk eat, yeah, that was the whole part I had. I've had, I've eaten hardly anything. So okay, so she rings me, so I text her and just said, Oh, I'll meet you. We can have tapas. We can have blah, blah, blah. As curious food. I was like, I can't and I thought, right there, and then I need to let her know, like, can't eat anything. I can't eat anything. So I messaged her saying, Look, I'm really sorry. She was like, we can have ice cream. I was like, I can't eat ice cream. Everything I ate, was just, like, just running through me. So anyway, I was like, Look, I'm really I went, look, I'm really sorry. I can't eat anything. I've got a really dodgy stomach. I've had like, diarrhea for like, three weeks now. I've I'm on what you call it. They gave me, they told me not to eat food. They said it was gastroenteritis. But it's been far too long. I'm taking probiotics, but it's not doing anything. I'm exhausted. I'm really tired. I'm coming off the Camino because I can't do it anymore, and and that's it. And I just sent the message, and that was the first time that I ever gave the kindness to myself from the permission of seeing others give kindness to me. Wow, that was that. Yeah, wow, isn't that. And I remember sending the message and then freaking out, and then inside of the 20 minutes of trying to get ready and leave, she sends a message back. She was like, Don't worry. Neither can I, me and my husband have a parasite, and I don't have time to, like, look it up, because I've got to get ready and leave the hotel and, like, walk to the station. I was like, what? And she was like, You need to tell the boss in our director that you have, like, really, you had. For three weeks. And I was like, I am not telling the American director that I've known for, like, however many years that I've got this problem. Like, I'm sick. And, like, No, you need to tell him, because he needs to know. And I was like, oh, god, okay, right. Fine. This is, like, without AI, because I did it very quickly. I was like, Hey, Greg, I just wanted to let you know that I'm really sick, right? So I send the message, right? Thinking, Oh, because it's so bizarre, like I would never, ever, ever tell anyone that I'm that sick. And then he sent the message privately back, like, hey, Samuel, I'm really sorry to hear that he went, you need to go to the pharmacy and get these, not antibiotics, anti parasite drugs. And he gave me, like, the photo of it. And I was like, Okay, this is really weird. I don't and then I when I looked at it, I thought, I don't even know how to ask for food at the restaurant. How on earth am I gonna get these tablets in Spanish over the counter in the pharmacy, like I was already struggling to get a probiotic. I was like, Oh, my God, I can't deal with this now. I was like, and then he sent the same message to everybody on the school group where the First Lady I'm in Gihon. Hey, everyone. I've heard that a few of you have got, have got problems with your stomach. And I was like, my god, I just started that. Like, that's crazy. Yeah. And, and then it was like, time to go. Like, you need to go because you're not you need to leave now. And, and so I was like, okay, okay. And I just managed to message her, saying, hey. She asked me, What time is your train? I'll come and meet you. And then I thought, God, that is so kind. And then I just thought, I just let her know that she needs to know this, that when I do see you, I'll probably end up crying, because that's what I've done three weeks, is cry a lot. And she was like, It's okay. Like, that was it, it's okay. Yeah, wow. And then yeah, she picked me up from the station. She we were on foot, like, I I felt like I was smelly. Like, don't give me hand washed everything. But she was like, it's fine, and it's someone I have the have passed with. I know her from work, and I didn't know well, like, yeah, I got and then I was there for five days, and the minute I arrived, I did say, like, and she saw the message too, you need to get these drugs. And she went, Oh, my husband, Sean, he's already got his drugs. Let me help you get yours. And I was like, but I don't speak Spanish. I don't speak any Spanish. And she was, okay. And when you get strong, like, they're not antibiotics, they're strong like, parasitic drugs to get it out system. She said, I just, do, you know what? Because I'm English, you can never buy it over the counter. You need a prescription. So I was like, how on earth? Because I had all of this, like, instant like, How on earth am I going to get it? Like, I'm not in Yangon, we can't just buy it over the counter? So I arrive, she takes straight away, takes me to the first pharmacy. She's speaking like broken Spanish, and the guy is an older, like older gentleman, and he's looking at me clearly, like I thought I looked okay, but she did say, you look really you look gray, like you look, you don't look, you don't look you okay? And I was thinking, there's a chance that I could get these drugs. I could be better, like, without these otherwise, like, I'm gonna, like, I felt like I was gonna wither away. And so she got the drugs for me. And the way she got it was, initially she said, We need these drugs. Because it was from a phone. Do you need these drugs? And he said no. And I could see him say no, and I just thought, Oh, my God. Like, where I'm gonna have to fly back to Yangon to get it, because I can't get it in England. You can hardly get a paracetamol. So I was like, God, okay. And then she was, Do you know what? What? How she got it. She said she's from Burma. She's been hiking in Burma. Everybody knows Burma. Everybody knows Burma. Yeah, we don't know Yangon, we don't know Myanmar, but you know, we all know that name she she's from. She works with a company in Burma. She's been hiking. She hiked here. She's been on the Camino for three weeks. She's really poorly. And then they went, and then there was and then he got it, and then I carried bag, you know, the paper bag with the drugs in. And she was like, come back to mine. And I was like, God, I just want to go to my Airbnb. And she was like, no, no, come back to mine. We'll feed you. I can't eat anything like, I can't eat anything like, I can't eat anything, and I love food. And she went back. She like, was telling me about certain ice cream to eat, yeah. And then she like, you need to end it was the it was for, for five days, six days. Three times a day, very strong tablets. And I didn't think that I lost any weight, but they were like, it's not weight that you've lost. You've lost it in, like, the most awkward places, because you like pooping it out, like four times a day, and, like, gray I slept a lot and I couldn't understand. I was like, what is what is it that the parent, because they were saying it's a parasite that lives in your intestine, and so if I'm not eating, that's what I couldn't understand. I had the the doctor said you've got gastroenteritis. And I was like, yes, but for three weeks, mate, and he's and if it's not eating food that's in my stomach. What is it eating? And then that was the gross answer, it's eating you. Yeah. Isn't that disgusting? Yeah. And I was like, I was like, No, I don't want that. I don't want that. Yeah. And, like, nothing. I still was the same, like, obviously, because you're walking every day anyway, you lose a little bit of weight. But I still like, I just look so sad in my face. I remember taking self portraits and things, and I was like, I just look so sad and like the sparkle in my eye that power to get through it like dissipated and disintegrated and left the station, and so that my friend like and that that text where I saw Gihon, and that text was how it started. I thought, oh, that's what I need to make sure I do is be kind, be kind to myself,

Turo Virta: 57:31

yeah, and it's, it's funny how, how it all started, like you get, you get kindness from someone else, like getting a free fruit who is from someone who sees that you are not doing well, doesn't let you even pay and then you start to realize that, okay, there is nothing wrong with me. It's an people are kind of to me also, regardless of what happened, and then you started to be actually kind for yourself, too. And that is, that is amazing, like, I can't tell enough how important that kind of shift, it

Unknown: 58:11

seriously was. It was a life changing experience. It was life changing. And my intention was never to join the Camino again. My intention was to stop at Gihon. That is it. I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I felt like I was a husk. And that time, I never told anyone how bad it was, because, because what I do is I hide it. I hide how bad things are. I'm like, Yeah, I'm fine. I was like, and then after that message, like, other people are doing the Camino, and they know that I have diarrhea, they know that I'm really sick. They know that, like, it's they know they thought they knew. And then when I started to really tell them, they were like, Oh my God. And I would meet people along the way who couldn't handle the Camino. And I'm like, where are you? They're like, Oh, I'm finished. I stopped the Camino. Couldn't do it. And what happened? They're like, Oh, I got a blister. I was like, oh. And so the comparing thing was not cool. You can't compare because you just can't compare. You can't use that as a weapon to say that I'm better than you, because it's not true. You can't Yeah, I learned a lot of life lessons and a lot, and I was never going to carry it on until, like, I spoke to another colleague, this French guy who was doing the Camino around ove do around Spain, a different a different walk. We were doing the super famous one to Santiago, the Santiago de Compostela. And the reason why I had to keep going, not I wasn't just to to excuse. My suitcase was in Santiago. And by then I was like, No, you stop at you stop at Gihon. You get a train across, you just stop, stop, stop. And then what happened was I got better, and I felt more like myself within a day, within a day, after taking the three times and talking about it, yeah, talking about it, and suppressing all of those feelings, like the emotions of like, all of the trauma of keeping it in, like my mum was, like, you should continue. You should really continue. Should get you. Should get you, should I was like, Mom, I'm actually really bad, like, and then when, the minute you, you tell people, I've got a parasite that they like, release the the pressure, yeah, that pressure should already come off when you say I can't do it, yeah. And so I found, like, being with them and being really truthful about how bad it was, how bad it actually was. You know, there obviously people had with nobody knew at school that we got it from, like we think we got it from a work with work event, because there was so many of us that got it and it was already in the water. And then, you know, every. When is scattered around the world, and you know, like, I'm on the Camino, and they're like, how have you managed to walk? How have you managed I was I just thought I was fat and unfit. That's how I told them. And then they were so shocked. They were shocked. They're like, No. And I was like, Well, I know that now, yeah, I just thought I was so unfit, like, all of that effort, I was clearly never going to be good enough. Like, like, my body was like, and they were like, no, they're like, Oh my God, how did you manage it? And I was like, there were times when I went to the toilet, like, you know, squatting in a bush, having to, like, concentrate and watch an ant. So I didn't, like, you know, put myself, yeah, I don't have, I don't want to change my clothes. I don't want to have to wash that off. And, like, having to really, really concentrate at this ant and, like, breathe out the pain. But like thing and like nothing, there was nothing like it, like, nothing like it, and people that I met like and people were so kind because I'm not religious. My name is Arabic. My father was is Muslim. I'm technically Muslim by like, by by by like, heritage, but I'm not that person you know went to a church, and there were moments where we, like, with the nuns singing, and then these really kind things would keep happening, yeah? And they were like, you know, people would always ask, why are you doing the Camino? And I was like, Well, I thought, you know, and I was like, I thought that I could do it. And in my heart, I was like, I don't think I could do

Turo Virta: 1:02:35

it, yeah, but I hate it. I with

Unknown: 1:02:41

a parasite who knew, who knew that would happen, that voice that we have, the hidden voice that we have in our heart, that is not true. That's why it's not true. You were it's not that you were not good enough. It was like, You need it and and you have to, like, the same story has a different perspective, like, nuances about how we live and how we live, like, really look upon ourselves. And, you know, yes, you could be the single fat woman forever. And I was like, No, that's not true. I did that Camino with a friend in my stomach. But, you know, like, we couldn't easily make a joke of it. But it's

Turo Virta: 1:03:27

worse, no at the moment, it was not funny. No, no.

Unknown: 1:03:30

But that's the thing. It is funny because I never told anyone, and then when they were horrified, Oh, yeah. Like, Oh my God, you need to get off it. You need to. She was like, You need to see a doctor. And I was like, You have not, like, for me, I did the Camino, like, on foot, walking with, like, really bad stomach problems. Like, I hardly ate anything. And that, that's what is. That's why, when I found out in my friend's apartment in Gihon, I don't understand how I've still got diarrhea when I haven't eaten anything. And they were like, Sammy, what are you eating for breakfast? I was like, a half a little bit of croissant, some dry cracker bread, like stale by now it's stale, some little bit of ham, you know, little Shambo, bit a slice of and a slice of a sliver of cheese, something I would never eat, because I was like, oh, I need I need protein, because I need to walk. And they're like, how do you make it? And I was like, I don't know. I said I write poems, and I look at the ground a lot, you know, like walking through three kilometers in, like, high temperature, and it's very beautiful, yeah. And I did do the train a lot. That's why I'm like, I did do the train. I did get, like, I did get busses and stuff. And they're like, but you still walked? I went, Yeah, I had to walk, yeah, because there's no way to get to the next place, and the so obscure that there's no there's no route. Yeah, I did do it. And so that intestine was eating me. Gross, man. It was so gross. And so all, all that kindness, you know, has to go somewhere they like, yeah, like, how do I explain it? The kindness, like, burns off the horrible armor that we that I was wearing to protect myself, my little, my little soft core of who I am, started to appear, yeah, yeah. And so it like burned off more and more. And I was like, oh, okay, it's okay. No one is judging you. They just they're more mesmerized by you, and it is your job to like tell them. And so when my story is my story and my friend's story, Sean, he went to like he went to how many hospitals, four hospitals in four different countries, because he his his his diarrhea, I'm sorry to say. Was horrific, like mine, but I, like, suppressed that power, like that, that kind of, like, I don't think I'm well, and I pushed on. He was, like, he went to Germany, he went to France, he went to Portugal, he went to Spain. And eventually, like, he also never found out the reason, without the director's link of the parasite, just happened. It just happened. And that's why I thought, oh, it's working with me. Life is working with me. It's not all these coincidences of people being kind. It's where people are like, it's

Turo Virta: 1:06:43

I'm seeing, yeah, and it was meant to be exactly how

Unknown: 1:06:47

you're meant to be. Like that you admit you are much stronger than you realize. Who hikes a little bit of the Camino. I think in the end, I, like, added up all my kilometers. And I used to be, like, really embarrassed. Like, how many images have you done today? Like, people would ask me, and I'm like, oh, it's not much. I'll be like, No, I did three. And they're like, oh, some people would be like that. They're like, Oh. And then how much have you Oh, I've done 27 sick. And I was like, and, you know, and before, like, I would never say

Turo Virta: 1:07:18

it, yeah, as we compare ourselves for

Unknown: 1:07:22

and I was like, Oh, my God, they think it's because I'm fat, yeah? And I was like, No, I'm not ugly and fat. I am fat. Is this? That's how I am, that's my body type. But I'm not, like, not. We're not stupid. I was like, like, that's the bit that we need to fat. Is just a description. Yeah, still be fat and strong. You can be fat and quiet, yeah. That that started that Camino started to, like, really, really alter and change that my perception. The guy who gave me the fruit where I almost started crying because I I was like, no, no, I want to pay. He was like, no, like, and there was no English, yeah, you know. And all the word that I got out of from him was camino. And he pointed at my sticks. And I was like, I felt like a fraud, and that, that's a really hard, hard thing to like admit, because I joined the Camino thinking I could finish, like you could do it. I was like, No, finishing isn't about the end goal. It's not finishing the certificate. Finishing is when you feel like this is the end before yourself. And so that was, I always remember the that man, the van man, and the full of apricots from the farm. Wow, eat it and it did. It did wreck my stomach really badly, but it was worth it. Yeah, and just finishing, I thought I was going to finish in Gihon, but after getting the parasite, like, like, the drugs that I got, I felt much. I felt like, I felt like, like I felt like all the weight had gone, all of that. It's me surprised. That's what it was so surprising. I was so surprised about how much strength I had, like the like people talk about strength and inner strength, but strength is not just lifting, yeah, the Camino with a parasite. Like, that's what I started to say. And because they were like, and they're like, What? How, how, as I work in Burma, and they were like, Oh my God. Like, you know? And I was like, Oh yeah, forget, I work there. That is a crazy place to live, you know? And so after Gihon, and after five days, we were talking about it, and then, like, what are you going to do? I was like, my plan is to get trains and jump to the end to get to Santiago. And they were like, actually, when I spoke to a French guy who's who was in of weirdo. He was telling me, like, you can go to a place that will stop the Camino with peace, and what does that mean? And he said, Virta bezo. And I was like, I don't know what that means. I've never heard of it. And he said, it's here. And is like, I can't remember, 50 kilometers. I don't think I can make it, but, and then when I looked at it, I was like, Oh yeah, you can you just break it up? You like, really, like, zoom in. Normally, people hike all of it in one go. But while I was I was jumping between the little, teeny, teeny, tiny towns, and that's where I stayed. I stayed in the most, like, not so obvious place I stayed. The first place I stayed in. When they asked me if I wanted food, I was like, No, and I knew the word now, like, I've got a bug in my stomach, like in Spanish. And they were like, Oh, I'll make you some rice. And they were like, okay, you know. And that was like, and obviously. See that first night, I slept poorly because someone's snoring, you know, someone's hacking up like coughing. The water was cold, but I felt so alive, like I felt, yes, totally do this, you know. And by that stage, I wasn't expecting to see anyone, right? I'd met people at the beginning where they go, Oh, how are you? I'm like, Yeah, I'm okay. But, like, I was crying in the toilet. I was crying while I was walking. I met a doctor at the very beginning of when we started, and I really wanted to tell him, I'm really sick, but I thought, do that. He hasn't come on the Camino to, like, listen to people's like stories, right about how sick you are. So I kept it quiet and didn't. I just didn't. It's like a pill of shame sits in the back of the tongue that you can't swallow but you can't out, and so, like, I wasn't expecting to see anyone, because all the people that I had met along the way were much faster than me, and they had finished, or that's how I thought, right? So I stayed in these, like obage, which is like these, like beds next to churches, and they were ethnically free, like very, very limited, limited spaces and limiting, and it wasn't that pricey. And people would tell me, like, you should go here. And one was there in hospital.or, by go. And I was like, God. And I was like, I'd already pinpointed another place because I met a lady. And I was like, never say no to a recommendation, even if the recommendation, when you Google, it looks like a dump. Okay? And I was like, and they were like, something, it's really beautiful. It has a garden. You would really like it. And you and they were because they knew by then, when I started the next round of Camino to get to the end point was like, they knew I had a bug in my stomach. I can't walk far. And they were like, it's okay. It's seven kilometers, you can totally make it. They said, Leave really early, and, you know, Sunrise as you're walking, you'll be fine. Just take lots, lots of rests. And I was like, God, I've got a really nice place. It's got five stars on Google, right? This place has got, like, one star doesn't look good. And I'm like, Oh, God. But they were like, This is linked to the church. It's linked to two monks. It's very peaceful, you know? And to have a recommendation versus Google, right? What do I do? It is like, I felt like, what do I do? So I canceled the five star Google. They have the five star, like, obese. I canceled it, and then I went to the recommendation, knowing that it is one star. And I thought, it is a recommendation, trust the process like trust the process I arrive. It is stunning. That's the photo on my ID for the for the for your app. You know, there are people that look like, like, like, very, very sweaty, all right? I am. I've walked seven I think I'm like, who I found that hard, and I was like, that's probably the most I've ever done in the three weeks. A lot, I wrote a lot of poems. I sat down, a lot. I had like, they they gave me like, boiled eggs. They gave me like a roast potato, like a like a boiled potato. Again, I finally arrive in hospital to obey go, and I'm like, oh, let's go. Let's go. Let's go check out. I mean, the city's beautiful. It's medieval, like, what you call it, the stones, stone pathway. You could imagine that you could hear the clip clop, clip clop of like, horses and there's a and there's, like, white, white birds everywhere. I'm like, okay, I get I'm the first one to arrive, because I don't. I want a space. I pick my bed. It's in a bunk bed of seven. Okay, unpack. I will hand wash my clothes, and there's a bath, like, there's a, like a garden area and, like a, like a fake sauna with a bathtub. So anyway, I do that. Then I'm like, go get some food, chill out by the river, have a cup of tea. And then that's when around about, like, one o'clock, between one and four. That's when everyone starts to arrive, because that's the hiking like people are taking, like four, like 27 3040, something. They're walking crazy. So I was like, so I go back right. Bear in mind, I haven't seen anyone. This is my first point to arrive. I walk in and I clock eyes with this girl, this girl, and she looks at me, and she's like, oh Monjo, oh my god. And she's pointing at me. And I'm like, back. And I'm like, Oh my God. And this is like, three weeks later, at the same lady that I met at the very, very beginning. I didn't see I was. Really sick. I didn't say anything. I was just like, really slow, and she's, oh, my God, how did you get here? How do you get here? So we ended up talking, and she's telling me, like, the guy that we met at the same time had really bad blisters and ended up cycling the rest of the Camino, but quit it. Blah, blah, blah. Like, how are you because technically, I'm like, ahead, but I was like, I'm not ahead. I stopped in Gihon for five days, and they're like, what happened? What happened? And I was like, I have a parasite. And they were like, and that was it, like, you walked with a Yeah. Clearly did yeah. And that was like, my absolute strength. I was like, yes, oh yes. The more I heard it, the more I believed it. Yeah, I needed to listen to it and be like, Samia, you walked Camino with a with a parasite. Who does that?

Turo Virta: 1:16:47

Yeah, like, there are not many

Unknown: 1:16:49

that's not that. It's not like, it's not normal. It's just like, it's not weird. It's just like, I didn't know. And they're like, What do you mean? You didn't know how I was at my stomach was really bad, like, and, you know, like, I told her about the ant story where I stare at the ant and make sure I don't, like, you know, put myself. But they were like, that's crazy. And so that was not the only story. I met. Lots of people like that. To the end,

Turo Virta: 1:17:18

it says that, just that comparison, what you said, like, what kind of there is so many different stories. And you probably, like, you said that you you are walking three kilometers, and then you ask somebody else, Oh, I did 26 in one day. And then you are like, okay, but then it's not the only you. You only probably hear those, but when you see that there is somebody else, you are still ahead of someone else, so and there is no you are doing in the end. It's it's your journey, it's your story, like in in in a life that there is no comparison, like there is, there is always someone else who is ahead of you, always someone who is behind of you. And it's it all that doesn't really matter.

Unknown: 1:18:06

And that's where it's so fascinating, because, because when I went to the final town and I did, it wasn't great, like, I'll be honest, it was, like, some of them were horrible. The hot, like, the bedding was horrible. And like, the very last time I was going to be like, I am ending in this place, Virta bezo, I'm going to the, like, the church, to pray that I am not I'm please, please release me from the Camino, because I am poorly. I have a parasite in my bag. Please release me. And I wanted to really be have a nice, calm end. The I get to the last like obage, the last like bed for the night by the church, with the with the with the birds, I turn a corner, and there's the girl that I met at the very first day I will and she recognizes me like that is and, and then obviously the conversation of like, Oh, I'm really poorly. I've been really poorly from the beginning. And they're like, what the craziness? And, you know, we're teachers. We meet other teachers, and it was like, Oh yeah, yeah. I'm really humble. It's being it's humbling to be seen after three weeks, oh yeah, and I wasn't and she walked with me. We got we I got ridiculous bed bugs. Yeah, I woke up and it was like bouncing up my arm. The last photo of me praying at the at the church was I had bed bugs going up my arm. Like you could see is red. Go to a promise. I don't speak Spanish. She speaks Spanish. She gets some cream. For me, I'm like, oh,

Turo Virta: 1:19:42

but isn't that so powerful to have to see that kind of moment when there is when you understand that you are not alone. You are not the only one. There are other people in not in the same situation, but kind of similar situation, yes,

Unknown: 1:20:01

and so much judging, so much pressure, so much like the pill of shame that I couldn't swallow or spit out like that sat at the back of my tongue. I was like, No. I was like, you can't, you can't eat like this is where I was, like, learning so much about myself. And don't get me wrong, it was the hardest thing I've ever done, but I enjoyed it. There were times when I didn't enjoy and I cried a lot, but the crying like I would talk to people very limited English and an Italian lady who'd be like, I started in blah, blah, blah. I cried every day. I didn't even know I had these tears. And I was like, and it's so refreshing. Oh, I bet the more I opened up, people opened up with me. And he shared one tomato with me and a bit of bread, some garlic and some olive oil. And I went, wow. I. This, and I could actually taste it. When I just started telling people was really sick, they invited me for a stew, and it was like, some tuna potato stew. And I was like, I can't eat anymore. I'm sorry. And they were like, Please take it. You need it for your stomach. And I was like, okay, you know, they changed like when I said, I was like, I when I arrived, there was only a bunk bed, and the only space is the top bunk. And I was like, oh my god, I can't be on the top bunk. I've got dodgy stomach. I got a bug in my stomach. They were like, Okay, we'll help you move. We'll swap you around. It was great, yeah. And even when it's like, not, life doesn't feel like it's going well, and it's scummy and dirty and grimy, and there's just so much pure kindness within that, yeah, like, like and language is not the prerequisite of kindness. You don't need it. No actions, yeah, and all of that, and even now, yes, I am fat. That is just how it is. But I feel strong. I feel strong and like my mom, my Japanese mother, like my little Japanese mother, very petite, struggles to open cans. And I'm like, here, let me show you how to do it. And I was like, okay, you know, and all of that strength, strength like, strength for picking things up, or strength for doing I'm like, Oh, I am actually quite strong. Like I live in for six years I dealt with a sight I do this, but that's where my arm has changed, like, it's more like silver, as opposed to be like soot, like dark, sooty, black,

Turo Virta: 1:22:44

yeah, yeah. So I honestly that's like something, what you just mentioned your home and background, little bit like you mentioned in the beginning, like that you recently lost your dad. So how did losing your dad change the way you see yourself and your body?

Unknown: 1:23:06

Yeah, so dad had so much pressure on me to like, conform. So my dad was Egyptian, and all my life, it's always been an issue about weight. You should be slim. You should be do this, if you eat less and move more. That was their motto. Move more. But no one tells you, like, actually, that's not going to work, because it doesn't work for everybody. Everybody like body shapes, I mean. And so having that motto, and trying to lose weight, not weight, trying to like, be more like who I'm supposed to be, because that's what I thought. And then, and then, losing dad. My dad had Parkinson's. He had stage four Parkinson's with dementia, and he's his mind was going like, slowly, slowly. I wasn't there to see the slow changes. I was there because every time I went home, it was more drastic. It's like, although I untangled the strings and the connectedness of the control from dad. A long time ago, the his passing was still a challenge. I never knew, like, I just, I never knew how much I really, really loved him, like all of that, because there was so much darkness, like so much, like pressure to, like, lose weight. You must lose weight. But it's more like, it's the word, it's the way of the wording that is an issue. You must be you're so fat, oh, you're like, they used to mock me when I was younger, like they I have two brothers, so it was Dad and my two brothers that would laugh at me. I don't know if I told you, like, there was a photo when I looked at recently and I was looking through my dad's hard drive, because I'm mum and me, yeah, I'm the one who starts to do more. I'm more action based. I can help and I can guide. It's my teaching, teaching ethos. And I was looking through photos, and I was like, wow, oh my god, you were so beautiful as a kid. You would so different. And I see in the three of them, and they're like, Yes, I can. I know that moment they were mocking me about my weight, how much I was eating, at the speed I was eating, and I was like, of course, you're gonna eat like that. And it's like, after dad passing, it was like, it's almost like, I have to release a part of myself and say goodbye to it, because I. It's, it's like it has to dissolve and, like, become more me again, yeah, and it's like the balls of string. It's like that little string that leads to, like, my younger self and my dad that I knew back then, who was mean, who was who abused my brothers against me about my weight, or like, I would never wore shorts, I never wore a skirt, I never wore a dress, because I would show my thighs and and I always used to have to hide it away. Is I have to, like, release the layers. And that's what grief is doing to me, is, like, the the inner layers of the flower of like, it's just having to come apart. And so his passing is, his is, is has been quite hard because, as also, we had to say goodbye to Dad further back, because he started changing. His dementia was changing. It was so nice, like he was so nice. And I was like, I didn't know

Turo Virta: 1:27:05

that, like, there is the kindness inside, yeah, I didn't know.

Unknown: 1:27:09

I mean, it's different. And my friend described it as it's the onion layers of who someone is. You just have the opportunity to learn another layer of your father. And I was like, and it'd be like, dad who can't walk anymore. Very clever Dad, you can't walk anymore. His mind is gone. It'd be like, I'd go see him in the nursing home. And I was like, Oh, how are you dad? And he's like, Oh, I went to work today. Went, Wow, really? I said, What did you do? And like, things like that. And he would never tell me about his work. We were never in his office, because his office was private. He had, like, a huge, huge collection of, like, 200 books. And during covid, I noticed it because I was there for like six, maybe I was there for a while, a long while, they cleared it because I needed somewhere to work that was away from their bed, because I was working nights, at night. And so I got to I started to see another layer of dad, and that's why it brings it back to grief, the layers. We're not just one person, we're many layers.

Turo Virta: 1:28:26

Yeah, yeah. And is it? Is it what is what was the hardest part? Was it the grief itself, or how people around you reacted.

Unknown: 1:28:38

That's so interesting. I think it's the grief itself. I just didn't know anything about it. You read it, but you're not, you're not really aware. It's not linear, it's not flat. There's so many layers. It's like, it's like layers of fat, like you got the fun stuff at the beginning, where everything was so numb when it happened, and I was so I was more pleased that all everybody was there, and the speed, like things that we take for granted, because I have two Brothers, and we're not, close. I'll be honest. We're not close. We're trying to be we're really trying right now, because I think we all keep our cards very, very close. Never, like, let it down and go, I'm not doing okay. Like, I told my brother recently, like he asked me how I am, and I was like, No, I'm not, honestly not doing okay, and it's not it's just because we love dad so much, and all our lives, all our lives, revolved around him when he went home. So I think it's the grief itself is a shock. Yeah, because you think that you have a tough childhood, you think that you can get over it very quickly. But, yeah, it takes time, and that's why, yeah, back to the beginning. It is uncomfortable right now, but, but then my my spirit just tells me, like it will be okay.

Turo Virta: 1:30:16

Yeah, it will be, it will be, at it, we don't know how long it will take. It takes what it takes. And that is the kind of, there is no really fix it, that you can do that now, go away it. It takes time. And it takes what it takes. We can't really, really like, speed up,

Unknown: 1:30:40

no, yeah. And, and that's the thing. Like, I keep thinking, Oh, you need to tell people that you're not okay. Because of the surface, I'm fine, yeah?

Turo Virta: 1:30:51

But inside, like, in this, I hope this kind of conversation, like, you. You what you mentioned in the beginning that you know you are not okay, and that is, I really, really appreciate your openness and honesty like that is, that is such an like, I would say rare thing like, because many, there are so many people who are not like you said, it's always so much easier to say that I'm I'm doing well, I'm okay. And you when you don't really see inside of person what is actually going on. It's, it's, there is so much happening, and we never know what is going on in other person's life. So I you mentioned those comments about your weight at home. How did that affect you emotionally