Hey and welcome back to fit me Turo fitness podcast. Today's guest is someone who blends science, health and real life, practicality in a way that's truly fascinating. I'm excited to welcome Dr Turkey, para Norwegian physician, Best Selling Author, photographer and the mind behind the ground breaking new book, The Pulse curve. I hope I pronounced your name correctly, Turk. But first of all, welcome to my show. Thank you, Turo, great to be here. Yeah, it sounded All right. I know the Norwegian letters and names are a bit difficult to pronounce, so yeah, no, that's, I'm, I'm originally from Finland and and studied Swedish, which is kind of same. It's not exactly the same, but I should be better at it, but it's a while ago, so sorry for forgetting so, so you are, you are on mission to looks something what is often overlooked, and that is a heart rate variability, or our HRV, how to say it, and you are using, tell me a little bit first, how more about little bit about yourself, what you are doing and and what, what? What is? HRV, yes, I am a Norwegian doctor, a medical doctor. And, yeah, I've been working all around Norway for 26 years as a doctor. And as you say, two years ago, I wrote the book The Pulse cure. That was just an instant success in Norway, just been a huge best seller, translated into seven languages, among them English and Italian. I know you are in Italy, and that is a book about how to use the wearable technology like we have in the smart watches and our rings and the boot band and all the different new technology that can track our heart rate. And heart rate variability is a measure of the state of our physiology, so it's a really, really important number to track to keep your health in a sustainable balance, because so many people, they live a life that is filled with too much stress, and they may also be under trained and underslept, so they may have too little physiological capacity, just for everyday, you Know, the stress of everyday life. So the book is really the best knowledge on how to optimize sleep, nutrition, exercise, active, rest, like your recovery, like meditation and cold water immersion and all that kind of things. And the luck is that the heart rate will reveal how effectively we can use these tools or these strategies. So following the heart rate is just a fantastic way to balance your stress. And this is like something because I'm I'm, if you look like I have a I have a sport watch, and I love to use and track all my, for example, my sleep, my workouts, stuff like that, and that heart rate variability is one of the most interesting things. And you see some number there. If you go to for example, if you look your, if I look my sleep data, and there is some number. So what, what is? What is some is there some number, what is like, kind of good or bad for that? And what those numbers tell us? Yes. So I can explain first, what is heart rate variability? And that is not the heart rate in itself, like you could have a heart rate of 60, for example, when you're resting and 150 when you're working out and so on. But heart rate variability is the variation between heart beats. So when we are in the RESTful mode, the parasympathetic mode in the autonomic nervous system, then the heart rate will go up when we breathe in, and it will go down when we breathe out. So that is a sign that we are in the restful state, and when we are in the stressed state. For whatever reason, whatever it's the mental stress. Maybe you have been eating something you cannot tolerate. Maybe you are in the week before menstruation. For women, maybe you have been drinking alcohol, or you are over trained, or many different things that can cause your body to go into a stressed mode. When you are in the stressed mode, then your heart rate will be that a steady pace. Regard. Of you breathing in or out. And this way, the watches can keep track of this system and see if we are enough in the restful state compared to the stressful state. And then, of course, with millions of users and algorithms and artificial intelligence and all the big data that we have now, they can give you an estimate whether your stress level is sustainable or optimal or not, and we are not really equipped to know this, and this is why so many people end up in a burnout situation. They will be over trained without knowing because the sense of our inner stress has never been a priority throughout evolution. All the senses have been directed outwards, with eyesight and hearing and smell and taste and so on, but the sense of the level of our inner stress has never been needed throughout evolution, but now we need it because what makes us sick, what makes people come to me in the doctor's office is too much stress compared to the capacity. So of course, you can tolerate a lot of stress. If you are have a good fitness level, if you are sleeping enough, if you are eating the right thing, then you can tolerate so much more stress. And this will be seen in the heart rate, which is a good thing. And also, of course, the good thing is that instead of coming to the doctor to have a reading or measurement of what is important for your health, you have it available on your wrist, in your hands, literally, at all times. Yeah, and is there? Is there? Like, three is so interesting, like, because I, of course, I follow it. I look the numbers. I like my what is giving me average for the last 28 days? But is there? Is there? And I definitely feel those signs as myself, if I like you said that either, either eating something that, drinking alcohol, having a stressful time with the work or family or or something, and that obviously affects your sleep, and also like that, even that sleep quantity might be pretty solid, like, let's say, eight hours, but quality, and especially that heart rate variability is is lower than it should be. So I definitely don't feel as recovered as even some other night size. Might sleep less, but I have a good quality of sleep. So, so is there some is it? Is those values, what you see from your tracker, are they individual or or is there some kind of values? What you could say that this is okay level or, or this is bad or good? Or, yeah, it's the heart rate variability that you will get will be a measurement of the average throughout the night. That's the most common number that you will get from your polar watch or from your rings and from your Garmin and whatever, and that number is highly individual, so it's estimated that maybe up to 50% is a genetic variation, which means that you shouldn't Compare your number to anyone else's, because, say, you have 40 milliseconds in heart rate variability, maybe your friend has 80. You could still have exactly the same level of health. And so it doesn't really make any sense to compare to someone else. But of course, on average, the lower your heart rate variability will increase the probability that you are under too much stress, on an average, on a population based research, so to speak. But for the individual, the only thing that matters is what you are able to get out of your heart rate variability under the perfect circumstances. So maybe in the summer you don't have too much work, you haven't been drinking wine, you have been eating salad and healthy things, then maybe you would find your top heart rate variability. And of course, you cannot have that every day. And we are supposed to be flexible. You're supposed to be able to stress and perform and use all your forces at times, maybe for several days in a row, maybe a week or two. But if you keep pushing yourself too hard for too long without recovery, there will be a price to pay. And you increase the chances of getting normal infections, you increase the chances of getting all kinds of lifestyle diseases, like like heart disease, like cancer, like autoimmune diseases, almost anything, because if your heart. Variability is low. It's a sign that your immune system is under pressure and does not work at full capacity, so to speak. So it will lay the ground for the terrain for all kind of sickness and illnesses. So it's, it's always better that higher the number is, it's, it's better and lower. It is. It means that there is something, what you should pay attention, right? That's right. That's right, all right. So how, how is that tracking? Tracking that your heart rate variability? How could it help, then people to prevent illness or burnout or or what are, what are signs? How you can actually say that now I'm in danger to get sick or burn out or something, usually, the different kind of variables would warn you, like, if I have the wood band, it will give me a red sign. In the morning, I will get red, yellow or green. So you want to be in the green most of the days. You cannot be in the green all the days, if you don't push yourself and have some yellow and red days, you know you will you will not build your capacity. So you will have some you will find a good balance between the recovered days and the stressful days. And these wearables will give you that estimate and tell you that now you should relax. You are stressing too much. You get too many red days. And the Garmin, in the same way, would tell me that you are under too much stress, maybe you should do some breath work, and you would be warned by the numbers that you get. And the same with the aura ring. It would if I've been drinking, it will tell me that I need a rest today. It will turn off the measurements. And just tell me now you need to rest. And you would not go into a burnout situation or be over trained without these devices telling you way before that you are pushing yourself too hard. So you recommend everyone to track their sleep or that heart rate variability. Yes, at least most people, some people will be too stressed by it. Some people would not be interested either. So I call this a dashboard to our health and physiology. So it depends on whether you want that or not. You can compare it to the dashboard in your car. You want to see your speed. You want to see how much fuel is left. You want to see that your engine is not overheating. You want to know the outside temperature, in case it gets below zero and the walls get slippery and so on. And this is the kind of information that you can get to your own physiology, because these trackers, you know, they will count your steps. They will count the heart rate. They will measure the temperature, body temperature, your oxygen level and your pattern of movement. And from these different biometrics and throughout, you know, the combination of big data and artificial intelligence, they will give you an insight to what's under the hood, like in your car that you have no other access to because you're busy living your life, you don't really have attention to these things and these devices help you, just like we need these numbers for other things in our lives? Yeah, no, we want to see your bank you want to see your bank account, right? Yeah, no. Do you have enough money to buy food for the kids? You know? Can you go on a holiday if you have no idea what's in the bank, if you don't know how much shopping costs, you're kind of blind, and we are kind of blind to our own body budget. So it would be like you don't have any insight to your salary or your bank account. Yeah, no, that's a great, great example. And reminds me, like all what I what I used to say, like that, you know, we say I have a people like, when, when I work with the people, and then, you know, I ask like, it's not obviously, it's never mandatory. It's depending on person, if that is causing more stress than it gives you back. But if you, if your goal is to improve your health, lose weight, whatever, if it's saving your money, you probably want to track them, because, simply by tracking, you are paying more attention, because what what's being tracked? You pay more attention. If you track your steps, if you track your weight, if you track your sleep, you are probably going to pay more attention. But on the other hand, those, those like when I hear many people are telling that. You know, I don't want to wake myself because I my day is ruined if I say higher number on the scale, as I would like to see, or the same thing, like with the sleep if you if, when I talk with some people, they tell that, that if I see the that I have slept bad, it makes you even more stressed and, and, of course, is that, but it's, it says that, like it says the data, like it says the it's like a kind of same thing that if you try to save your money, save money, you probably want to know how much you are getting in, how much you are putting out. Or the same thing, if you, if you want to, if you want to become more active, you probably want to track your steps, or it's a good way to track your steps, but it's not if someday you get 3000 steps in and your goal is to get 10,000 that it's not a sign that you should actually quit. It just gives you a feedback that, okay, this day happened. 3000 then maybe, maybe next time, what else I could be choosing, or what else, what, what other kind of decisions I could be making. It's kind of same thing with the sleep. And it's, it's, it has been for me, such a powerful tool to do when I track my sleep, to learn to recognize trends like, what things are affecting, and it was like, at least for me, I talk from my my own experience, like I used to, and I still have, I know I have many, many people, clients, who are telling me that, for example, alcohol is that they fell asleep so much easier. They sleep better when they have been drinking. And I said, you might fell asleep faster, but your sleep quality will never be as good as without alcohol and and it's, it's just for me, for my own examples, like when I look my sleep and I have been drinking alcohol day before, or like usually smaller amounts, like one, maybe two at most alcoholic beverages, and if they are not close to my bedtime, they there is not huge impact for my sleep. But soon as it start to be later on my bedtime, or if it's more than one, one portion, then there is a huge, huge impact for my sleep and, and of course, I know it. There's your resting heart rate, heart rate variability. Everything is going on, sleep, quality, even quantity, will be close to change than usually, but quality will never be the same and and I find it, it's just so powerful to learn, and also with the food, same thing, if I would eat something heavier or what I'm what my what I might not be able to digest quickly, also affects to my sleep later than usually. So just just learning personal Of course, these are just my own personal examples what I have learned, and they are probably for every person, different, or workouts. For me, it's a hard workout late at night. I'm playing ice hockey, sometimes really late at night. And of course, that adrenaline, stressful body, it affects also to sleep. I can't tell you, sleep, there's a problems, and sleep quality will never be the same. Then if I broke out, for example, earlier in today. So just a few things. What affects to your at least for me, for my sleep, heart rate variability, yeah, and that sounds like very common things to react to. And of course, when you start regulating a little bit, you know at least that. You know that if you have those kind of eye socket training, you know how it will affect your sleep. And then maybe, for example, one of the strategies in the pulse cure is cold. So maybe you will find out that after the eye socket training, you can do a cold water shower or even in the ice tub, and you can see that your stress level goes down and it's easier to sleep also. So the pulse here in my book is full of these different strategies that you can use to manage your stress. Because, of course, if you see that you are stressed in the night and you don't know how to fix it, then it becomes even more stressful that when you can identify the stress and then go to the book, because this book is actually the world's first guidebook into regulating your autonomic nervous system with wearables for some incredible reason, and that is why it's been selling so much. And when you get these strategies, it becomes easier, because it. It's like if you if you get some trouble with your car, and there's no driver's manual or there's no book to show you what to do, okay, then it becomes stressful. So you need to find the tools. And what is good is that the same tools will give you more well being in the moment and better performance, but it will also increase the chances of you living a long, healthy life, and this is all connected to heart rate variability. So you can Google any disease, almost that you can think of, and if you google it together with a heart rate variability, you will find out that there's lots of research, of course. Now you can probably use chat GPT instead of Google, and it will present you with so many different research studies, because this is an easy biometric to to get once you are studying people, this is very, very common. So there's so much research on this also, is there? Is there? You thought about your book, would you mind sharing some other helpful study strategies to improve their how to or how to use that HRV or just an example situation like that, I love that cold, cold shower or ice pad later after hard workout, for example, close to bedtime, which helps to reduce stress. Is there some other example? What you would like to share like situation? Yeah, we can take some advice on sleep, for example, and that would be just as you said, to avoid eating anything closer to three times, three hours before you go to bed, dropping alcohol, of course, according to whoop the band that Cristiano Ronaldo uses and many other athletes, alcohol is the worst dresser of all. So stay away from alcohol. And then, two hours before you go to bed, you should dim the lights, because we know that the light has so much impact on the circadian rhythm, so dim the lights two hours before you go to bed, keep your bedroom really dark and a bit cool. So in centigrade, that should be 15 to 18 centigrade would be ideal. So that would be some of the strategies that you could use when it comes to sports. Maybe do a lot of the training in Zone Two, easy training, so you don't need to push yourself too hard if you are under a lot of stress, because so many people, they are under a lot of stress in their daily life. And then when they only have the time to exercise maybe twice a week, for example, then they go all in and push themselves really hard. And when you don't have a number for how much recovery you need, then it's very, very difficult to find the balance. Maybe you are pushing yourself way too hard, and that will just increase the probability of getting injured and so on. So adjusting your intensity and duration of your exercise compared to your available energy, so to speak, that's important and and you have a polar watch, and unfortunately, the better ones are the Garmin watches, because they will give you the recovery time after an exercise. They will give you a training readiness before you start exercising, so that you know what state your body is in. And that is very useful for for many people. So that's that's very, very interesting. So how like is there? Is there toast ever already, like so many, so many great, small habits, what you could be trying already today to improve your heart rate variability. But is there? Is there like? What are the like most common, or common mistakes people are making when they try to recover or reset, they may lie on the couch eating some candy or crisps or ice cream, and thinking that they are relaxing and recovering. And then when you look at your heart rate, you will see that your heart rate is really high, that this food creates a lot of stress in your system, even if you are lying there on the couch watching Netflix, feeling good because you have just been eating something with a lot of sugar in it, so you get a dopamine kick in your in your hormones and so on. So I think that is quite common mistake, and a quite common mistake also would be not to realize how intense a workout can be. So if you get a lot of lactic acid. Sid in particular, a lot of anaerobic exercise, then it can take several days to recover, much more than you would expect. So that would be two common mistakes. And for women, I'm not sure if you have many female listeners, but but for women, the week before menstruation can be a really, really tough load, physiological load on the system. That you can see your heart rate variability really dips. Actually, it dips as much as having a COVID infection. I can see that on the numbers, because so many people send me their their graphs and ask me questions and so on. So I can see that the dip in heart rate variability as as strong as this as a heavy COVID infection. So and then you shouldn't really do your hard workouts. Maybe you should do yoga instead, or it's own two training take better care that you're sleeping enough and so on. So you cannot push yourself as hard for that week as for the other weeks in the menstrual cycle. Now those are very like, I, I wasn't aware of this, like, especially with women. So I know I mostly work with the women, but, but how much it actually affects like, of course, I, I'm aware that the menstrual cycle affects how you are able to, how much you are able to train push yourself, but that it's, it's, that's almost like a shocking that the heart rate variability is like that you are about to get COVID. That's, that's, wow, thank you. That was such a big, big thing. So I want to talk a little bit about emotional side. So for like of that, like, kind of long longevity, and how is, how does the mindset or positivity impact on HRV or and the health? Yeah, so positivity, gratefulness, these kind of emotional states, they will be better for heart rate variability, having purpose, being kind, all of these things will be showing off in the heart rate actually, wow. And on the opposite side, if you are frustrated, you are irritated, you are feeling anxious and depressed and, yeah, feeling meaningless existence and so on, this will give stress to your body, and your body reacts in a different physiological way with different kind of hormones, whether you are happy and feeling good and being optimistic, rather than being anxious and worried and pessimistic. So your body and your circulation, your blood circulation, will actually behave differently if you are optimistic, if you are thinking that this is good, this stress is good for me, then your heart rate will pump out more blood in each cardiac output, and your blood vessels will dilate out in your body to get more blood and oxygen to the different parts of the body. But if you are in the varied state, you are scared, you are anxious, you are pessimistic, then you can there will be a different reaction. There will be more cortisol, and also your cardiac output will be less and the the arteries in your body will constrict and there will be less blood coming out to the different parts of the body. And why is that? It's not totally sure why it is like this, but the theory is that 100,000 years ago, when you were hunting, you were in the positive state, and when you were being hunted from enemies or from animals, then you were in the fearful state. And then in that state, there will be a risk of being bitten or bleeding for some damage. And this is why the blood vessels needed to be constrict to minimize the blood loss. And this is also what you can see on the football pitch. For example, you can almost see this, that the team that is optimistic, that thinks that they are attacking, they run faster, they behave different. And when they suddenly get scared, maybe they are about to lose and they get scared of of conceiving goals, then, then they act differently. You can almost see it live this effect, at least, I think so. So it's important to have this. You don't need this overly optimistic. View on things, but to be aware that your body will react differently, whether you are pessimistic and worried instead of optimistic, and you know that you have some you're more on the positive side, that you are grateful, that you are seeing what is there instead of what you are lacking. So there will be different, different affect your life, very differently. Yeah, no, it absolutely, it makes so much sense. Like, if I I feel like I'm I'm, in general, I'm, personally, I'm very positive version, trying to think, always positive ways and, and then, on the other hand, like my wife is very pessimistic and always like very anxious and, and also, obviously, many, many of my clients, they feel, or people who I know, they are like you, they are kind of all the time, like negative persons or or getting stressed for even small things like or feeling, feeling, having kind of emotions, it's if it's a stress or or fear or anxious, you can name it, whatever you want. Do you have any like, is there? How if you, if someone who is listening is feeling like that. This is you hit the nail like now. Now I'm definitely on on that kind of part like that. I'm way too stressed or or anxious, and I would like to become more positive. Is there what what kind of tools you have? I know maybe this is not your specialty, but I would just like to know your opinion, or what kind of tools you are using. I'm using many tools, and also there's a lot of good self help books in this area. I've actually written a book, it's not released in English, called the camera cure, which is about how to use coping skills, how to use your mind, how to think, to be productive. And for example, if you're worried, there's a great book by Dale Carnegie. I think the name is, stop worrying and start living. There are many good books on all of these different subjects. So whatever you're struggling with, you will know that other people have been struggling with it before, and you need to find out who managed to solve that. And I'm sure if you go to the Self Help section in the bookstore or in the library, there will be lots of help for the different kind of situations that you would be in so but you need to work on it, and it can take a long time. You need to be patient. You need to accept where you are at the moment, even though you wouldn't want to be there. You need to be very patient in improving, and that, I think, is the most important thing, because so many people will be too frustrated, too impatient, and that is not productive. It is not getting you where you want to go. So yeah, then I would advise people to do that. Yeah, yeah, I was. It? It's like you said, I feel the same, like you said that it's, it's like, it's, it was for me also like, when I, when I, I'm also like, in some cases, I have patience, but then if I start to learn new skill, or something like, for example, meditation, I was very interested to learn it, but then I was like that. I tried it like for couple times, or gave it for a couple weeks, but then I knew that it's, I'm not in a state to really like meditate. And I said, Okay, do I really need it like I have other tools to take care of my mental health. I don't need to. And this was not for me. I tried it, but I knew that if I would like to learn to meditate, I would need to give it a shot and start with the very small thing. That's kind of same thing with the exercising you want to build habits that last it's, you have to understand that it's, it's starting small and and it takes a long time, and it's, it's the biggest mistake is to think that I really like, kind of, for me is kind of that all or nothing, thinking that, you know, if I can do it perfectly or now, or if I'm not, from the beginning, very good at it, it's not even worth of doing it. So it's it has that mindset though, of like, in everything. Like, if you practice journaling, gratitude, being positive, like honestly, most likely, if you think that, how many situations there is in a day, there are 1000s of decisions, reactions, how you are going to react for things, what are happening? I. And the progress is not that you get them everything right right away, but it's that if you make, let's say, 1000 decisions per day, and now you are able to make maybe 400 good ones, 600 not so good ones. And if you are able to make 410 good piece or better decisions that is already progress. And it's kind of same thing. I think with those all kind of self help and changing your mindset, of course, there's you can always change. I many people, maybe you have your personality that is harder to change, but I believe that with the time, with the practice, with the right tools, everything is possible to change, but it's almost always taking lot longer than you would like it to take. Yeah, so you have to consider how different can you be in five or 10 years if you do a little bit at the time so people underestimate what they can achieve in 10 years, and they overestimate what is possible to do in half a year or one year. So they need to be patient doing small steps at the time, just keep adding the small, good steps, and that is the way to do things. And there's, there's no alternative, really, to that, and there's no alternative to the effort to making the effort, either. And that is the same in the post cure. Either you do a small effort every day to have a healthy life, or you skip it and hope for the best and then you will be sick, and you will be lose your abilities a lot earlier if you don't do that effort every day and and you don't need to do much, like, for example, I do sit ups, push ups and squats every day around 50, it will take me two or three minutes, and that is enough for me to have a quite okay level of muscles. And earlier, I used to think that the only way to do exercise was one hour in the gym, but now that I do these small things every day, that seems to be enough, and it would be the same if you're meditating. Maybe the most important is to meditate for three minutes. If you can't do 20 minutes, most of the effect maybe they will be in only three minutes that you can do when you're on the bus or waiting for someone or whatever. So the small steps, those are the really important ones. No, I totally agree. And it's funny what you said about exercising, because this is exactly like what I had to also learn, part way from myself, from my background to being professional, ISO key player, and when I retired from being professional, and you had that kind of or I had that kind of mindset that could work out, have to be an hour workout and it have to feel hard. Or if it's nothing like a walking or or doing some mobility workout, or 10 minute or five minute strength workout that it it's not even worth of doing it because it's too less. It doesn't bring anything. It doesn't help at all. And now, like when I get older, it's more and more with more people I have worked the one, the ones who make actually the most progress, are the ones who are actually consistent, not the ones who are able to do like perfect five six workouts, our full hour workout, or 45 minute workouts, several times per week, because most of those people, it's often, it's matter of time before they quit and and that consistency, it's it matters so much more that, when you think that what is, instead of thinking like for me, if I think that what is earlier, I think that how my best week should be. And now I don't care how my best week is, what I'm more concerned is that, how is my worst week, and what can I do even in a worst weeks? So because there is always, like, obviously some weeks are busier, there's things happening, but still, like for myself, what I use rule, I need to get started. I need to only get started. And that is, I made promise for myself to start my strength training two times per week, even it's five minutes or two minutes, even if it's only one exercise. But once I have done that, I have kept promise for myself, and then next week or next day is another chance to start keeping those promises, what you make to yourself. And then if you can't keep promises, what you make to yourself, then it's time to lower. Your own expectations? Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. So what is, what is you talked about aging and, and how is that attitude, like that positivity and, and how that stress, how, how can, how that at your sorry attitude like that, can impact on your on Aging, how you your ability to live healthier for longer? So what, what kind of is there some studies or what, what? What is your take on on this? Yeah, so about the attitude of being older, then there are research showing that if you have a positive attitude to that, you will be healthier and live longer. If you have a negative attitude towards getting older, then it's more chance that you will be sick and that you will live shorter. I think maybe they discuss why it is like this, and maybe it is so that the ones who have a positive outlook have more strategies to to be healthy. They have feel more in control of their life. They would probably be exercising more, doing smarter things, the ones that feel more helpless and feel that they are aging without their control, so to speak. That is maybe part of the reason. But there will be a difference between if you are positive or negative towards aging, and aging. Of course, there's a difference between aging in just chronological years, but the biological age is maybe even more important, and you have much more control of your biological age. Actually, from the advice in the pulse care, there are research showing that you, if you implement those strategies, then you can live 24 years longer, because it's all when you add up better nutrition, better exercise, better sleep, better ability to mitigate stress, managing alcohol, nicotine and many other things, then and having better relationships, which is also very important, then you can actually live 24 years longer. Wow. Then if you don't have them, if you have poor relationships, if you smoke, if you eating junk food and don't exercise at all, and so on. And there's so there's a big difference between those who do the right things and for and those who do the wrong things, of course, most people kind of do half right and half wrong, okay, and live the average life and the average life expectancy of 80 years old. So if you do everything wrong, then you would be lucky to be 70, and if you do everything right, there's a good chance that you will be 90 years old and still enjoy life so and that is my experience as a doctor, yeah, no, that is, it's, it's, for me, it sounds so true and like, if you think like that, like you have, for sure, like more experience, but it says the chances what you are giving to yourself to live healthier, longer life, like that. If you don't care too much, you maybe you make it until 70. But it's not. It's not only about how old you will live. It's also about, for me, at least it's a quality of life, what you what things you are able to do in also later in life. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the good thing is that the the same things that will help you be healthier will also make you live longer. So we're not talking about that you live 10 extra years, and those years are just lying in the bed being sick. It's also healthier years because you're you're helping your mitochondria, you are helping your cells to perform better. So most of the diseases that we treat is really diseases of too little energy production in the cells, too low capacity in the mitochondria and in the cells, and that will affect all the different organs in the body and the organ in the body that are mostly dependent on good mitochondria. That is, of course, the brain. So if you have a poor health level, the brain will suffer the most, and you will, yeah, you will not have a good life. Then I have a couple questions before we wrap up this episode from my clients, like I talk from my clients as my many of my listeners are busy. Women over 40, they are dealing with the stress fatigue or hormone shifts because of menopause. How would that tracking HRV help them to understand their bodies better? They would be able to earlier identify what stresses them and what keeps them healthy, and in particular in that period, because they are very vulnerable to stress, and particularly with the perimenopause and then stress. You know your ability to tolerate stress will be less. So it's even more important than ever to be able to control your stress. And of course, what you can measure you can manage. So when you see the stress measured in your heart rate, it is a lot easier to adjust the intensity in your life and also to identify what what adds to the stress. You will have some stress from being in that age, from the perimenopause. But then, of course, you don't need to add alcohol, you don't need to add nicotine, you don't need to add food that you cannot tolerate. Like many people will identify from their heart rate, that there are certain foods that will stress them out, like for me, it would be chili and and they put chili like in everything. And if I eat something with chili in it. My in the evening, my night is ruined, just like with alcohol. So so they would be able to identify energy thieves that they can do something about. There will be some, some something that they can't do anything about, like their age, for example, but there will be things that they can that they can control. So that is actually one of the groups that are most happy about, the pole security, the book that in that x, in that age group, and of course, when they get into the menopause, they would be able to get hormone replacement therapy. And the effectiveness of that, many people tell me, can be measured in heart rate variability. When they find the right dose and the right medication, their heart rate variability improves. So this could be particularly interesting in that age group. Yeah. And then if somebody was like, What is interested now, you are very good salesman. I hope all my listeners are going to get your book as this. These are, I'm sure, like, I gotta be honest, I haven't been reading it. I'm curious to read it. Hopefully soon, I have couple books in my read list, but I love to read, and I am really keen to get into your book and read all these things as this is so interesting for me to learn new things. But if somebody is now interested to start to track their HRV and what are kind of the best, like, a low cost tools or variables to get started with the HRV, yeah. So the by far best tools are, unfortunately for Finland, it's the Garmin watches. But it's good also, because the thing that is best about the Garmin watches is that they bought the Finnish company first beat. Okay, so Garmin will use first bits algorithms in their system. And first beat is a Finnish company with more than 20 years of experience with physiological measurements, so that I think they are the best one out there. So both the cheapest option and the best option for micromanaging your stress levels. That will be the Garmin watches. And then, of course, you have other ways, like the aura ring, the woo band. But in my mind, Garmin is really, really the best option, and you would probably get them from like $250 or 250 euro for a really good one. So it doesn't need to cost a lot of money. Of course, you can buy it secondhand. And so it doesn't really need to cost a lot. And of course, if you use it and you learn something, you can pass it on and sell it. So so it's not really, really expensive if you find out that it's not for you so and then, what is one simple action someone could take today after listening this episode, to start balancing their nervous system. The most important thing would be to minimize alcohol if you want to feel better to have more energy, by far, and 90% of people drink alcohol. So there's a good chance that your listeners will be drinking alcohol. So that would be the most important thing, to minimize it only keep the ones that you really want to if there's a birthday or celebration or. A special occasion. But when you could, just as well have a cup of tea, have have the cup of tea instead, I would say that's most important. And now would also say about the book that is also an audio book, so you, you would be able to listen to it also while you're training or doing other Yeah. Oh, absolutely. That is, that is, like my, my favorite place to when I go for a walk or something or driving with a car to listen either podcast or some books. So that's a great trade tip. Then last rapid fire wrap up questions. So if I have a three questions and just curious to know your opinion or answer. So one myth about its RV or stress you wish would go away. Can you repeat the question? One myth about HRV or stress you wish would go away, that would be that stress is only bad. So stress would be good for you. It will build your resilience and your capacity, but you need to recover. So if you just stress without recovering, you have not gained anything, but you can't. You can really stress and make it be positive by recovering enough. And what is your typical recovery or energy boosting habit right now? Mike, could you repeat again? What is your to go? Go to like what you are using yourself, kind of recovery or energy boosting habit right now that would be, that is good for a finish. It would be the sauna and cold plunge. So I just did it yesterday. And usually I do it at least during the winter, once a week, so I go into the sauna and then out into the water. And I actually use my watch, my Garmin watch, to adjust how long time in the heat and how long time out in the water. And actually, I actually released reel on Instagram yesterday about that, about how I use it. And that one is in English, so your your listeners will be able to to see that and listen to that. How I how I use it, so that I don't stress too much, and that I go out of the sauna and I'm not exhausted, because heat is very, very stressful for your body and and also, in the same way, the cold can dampen inflammation, so to use temperature deliberately by watching your heart rate, that is also very good. Oh, that's injury. I'm going to try it. I love, I love sauna as well. Trying to also, at least once in a week, going for sauna after that, obviously cold, sour or or cold water ice. But whatever is possible, I have a cold, sour option, but for myself in most, most days. So that is my and I gotta, I gotta check it. I never actually done with the group. My heart rate while doing it. It's just going to check your Instagram reel. What's your account? It's very, very helpful tips, especially those. Would you what I would understand you. I think you post with the both languages, in English and in Norwegian. But those English ones, there's a very, very good tip. So make sure you go to follow Dr turkil in Instagram. So the last question is a book or practice that changed the way you think about health? The book or practice? I think there are so many books because I'm reading maybe 50 books a year, but if it would be one book, maybe the Body Keeps the Score. At least that was the book where I became aware that heart rate variability is such an important biometric, so the Body Keeps the Score. By Bessel van der Kolk, he is a psychiatrist. It's really, really good book on trauma and how to deal with trauma, and that affects so many people. So I would say, I would say that book awesome. So please tell what was the name of your book again, for those who missed it and where to get it, yeah, the pulse cure, which is available everywhere. I'm not sure where your audience is. You are in Italy, but it's also out in Italian, yes, and it's also on Amazon. You can buy it on anywhere on even on. Your iPhone, it's in the book app. On iPhone, you can download it as a audio book or or ebook, also awesome, and where people can find you, what is the best place? If somebody wants to message you that should probably Instagram or LinkedIn. I'm on my own name on LinkedIn, and then Dr turkil, Dr dot Turkey on Instagram. And I have an English only Instagram too, which is a bit smaller than called doc underscore Turkel, that I will be using more in the future with only English speaking content. Awesome. Thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to add information about you? I will add all, by the way, all these links to show notes so you can find those links in the show notes. Yeah, they can. They will be able to see on the pulse, secure.com they will be able to see a video lecture where I explain everything. And if they're also on YouTube, if they find my name, there's also an a lecture that I had for the Garmin headquarters that they could see and listen to how I explain everything in with the details that you can see. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much. Dr turkil, that was I learned so much. I hope listeners too, and if you enjoyed the episode, I'd love to have five star review if you haven't already lived it, so please do it. Do a favor so more people can find this podcast and and thank you so much for your time. Dr Turkey, thank you, Turo, thank you. Bye.