Hey and welcome to feed me, Turo fitness podcast. In today's episode, I have a amazing guest, actually, who I have been waiting 11 months to get into my podcast. So before I'm telling who it is and letting Leslie to introduce us, just a little background. It's sometimes these podcast interviews, they are not so easy to schedule, especially when we are from different contents and but we are long in this game and doing things. So Leslie Logan, welcome to my show, and if he starts, just a short introduction, who you are and where you are living and what you are doing. Oh Turo, thank you so much. And yes, I know time zones, continents, travels, holidays. I so appreciate your patience. I'm excited for our talk today, you guys. I am a Pilates instructor Since 28 I found out about Pilates in 2005 when I was kind of in a different place in my life, a little bit lonely, and someone invited me to a class, and I thought, well, that's a waste of time. That's an infomercial workout. Can't do what it says. Like, I don't know if you have infomercial workouts in in Italy, Turo, but like in the States, at like, 3am there's, like, do this, and it will help you lose weight and your arms return. And so I just thought it was fake. Anyways, I wanted a friend, so I went to this class, and it truly changed me, like I felt parts my body never felt before. And so I got obsessed with going to class, and I never thought I'd be a teacher of Pilates everyone. I thought I would just go to Pilates and be this hap like hobby that I had. I loved my job. I was in retail. I i in high in fashion accessories, and I just loved that. At any rate, I got so interested in Pilates that someone said, Yes, I teach it. And then in becoming a teacher, I got so busy teaching Pilates, I had to quit my job and just teach Pilates full time. And I did that in 2009 and what ended up happening is, in my course of training and understanding, and I don't know if you get like, this Turo, but I got so obsessed with learning, like, who is Joe supplies? Where is it from? Like, why are we doing this? Why does this work so well? I discovered that someone who trained with Joe supplies, his studio was just down the street from where I lived, and so I got to train with him, and people who trained with him, and I had this lucky like, I just lived in the right place, you know, and people traveled from all over the world to come and train with him, and I just got to, like, run down the street. And so I just had so much fun learning from him and the people who learn from him, and I still am learning, even though he's passed, because your body's changing every day. And so that's what's so cool about Pilates. I get to that. So now I travel the world teaching teachers. I lead retreats, I coach teachers on on Pilates, and then I get to help humans who don't want to be teachers just have access to Pilates. So that's one of my favorite things I get to do, because it changed my life. It really helped me know myself more than anything. And you don't need to be a teacher to love Pilates. You could just love doing Pilates. And that's what I want to help people. Want to help people do. Oh, that's, that's so nice to say. My background, I have nobody I have done one Pilates session in my life that was not, like, I gotta be honest. And maybe that's more like a women's thing. Like, I know there are some guys too. But, like, I would say, I don't know my Yeah, thought you're not, like 95 pros. And I would say that are women or, yeah? Well, you know, here's what's funny, right? I think it's really funny is that, that it looks like it's a women's workout, but it was designed by a man for men. Yeah? You know, so, and that's the thing, like, what people don't realize is that Joseph place was a person. He lived in Germany. He actually was a very sickly child. And he did a lot of studying, and he got a lot of his method from the Greek the Greeks, the way the Greeks moved, and the Greeks tenants and pillars for health. And so he got that, and he brought it to the US. And back in the 1920 Yeah, 1920s like, women weren't allowed to work out. So they actually thought, even into the 70s, that if women worked out, they would grow hair on their chest. They would get bulky. They wouldn't be able to have babies. Like, there's all this misinformation out there, but men were his, like, primary clients. He was a boxer, that's what it's for. And today, and then, and then, when he passed, because the dancers had been going to him as well. The dance world, and the dance world is mostly women, with some men, the people who are taking his stuff to the world were women, and were specifically dancers, and so they looked a certain way. But Pilates doesn't actually make you look like a dancer. Pilates balances your imbalances, no matter what your body is, no matter what your body type is, no matter what your born has like, you can do Pilates, and it's going to help balance your imbalances and effectively allow whatever you already love to do become easier, more possible, have longevity. And so I really, I think it's a really cool thing. And, but I think more men started doing it in the 90s and early, 2000s as athletes. And I think that now more and more men are getting into it. Yeah, no, of course, that is, that is what I what my experience like. It's a great like, you know, I'm a man. I'm a professional I was professional lives hockey player. Work with athletes and and I think I we had, like, when, when I was an athlete, also, like, all these kind of yoga things, pilates, like different kind of workouts, just for, like, just, it's not just only about weights or doing runs or it's like athletic workouts. And I believe there's a big value behind all these kind of things. Like, obviously, you have to have open mind for trying everything. Yeah, well, and I think, like, the world has come a long way in understanding, like, what is fitness and what, what are we trying to do? Like, yes, you must. I think we there's enough science out there that shows we need to lift heavy weights, both men and women, and there's enough information about that. But there's also, you know, when I will look at Instagram and I see people try these, like mobility challenges, I kind of laugh because they're like, to me, very easy, because they're exercises combined from Pilates that that I could do, and the fact that young people cannot stretch their feet, cannot sit on their heels, can't get up without using their hands, that's not just young people. Now you get older, you know, most people don't sit down in a chair. They fall into a chair. And so a lot of the aches and pains and things that people are feeling is because society, no matter where you live in this world, has you sitting in a chair? Has you not sitting low in chairs anymore? You know, we're not using mobility. And so what I really appreciate about my Pilates practice is that, like it actually allows me to lift heavy weights without having pain, aches, injuries. It It allows me to try new things, like I went rock climbing. I've never rock climbed, but I can do it because my body is used to doing those mobile have the mobility in my hips and my knees and my ankles and so but I think it's also important that people know how to find a good Pilates class or a good Pilates place and and then also that they are still doing other things, because our we're supposed to challenge ourselves in that way. So a good a sign that you're at a good studio is that they actually have the Pilates system, and they focus on that. Meaning, if you're just going and doing what is very popular right now is called reformer Pilates, I would actually argue you're not getting the full system. The reformer aspect is one part. It would be like going to the gym and only using the dumbbells, never using a barbell, never using a kettlebell, never using a rig, never using bands. Like one person, someone would never do that you would you use the whole gym, right? So the reformer is excellent, but it's not the whole it's not the whole show, and people who are only trained to teach in that are missing a big picture. And so look for studios, even if you just go to a former class. Look for studios where the teacher is trained on the mat or the Cadillac in the winter chair, that you could have access to those other pieces, because your body might need it. And you're looking for teachers who've been trained over six nine months or a year, versus a weekend, if they went to a weekend training, you know, that's not as good as as a nine month training. So you're looking for things like that, and then you should be doing less than 10 reps of everything. So if you're doing more than 10 reps of things, you're likely not doing Pilates. You might be doing something that's just likened to it. It's similar, but it's not the same, you know? So, so I really like to tell people that, because it's so popular right now and it's easy to fall for the marketing and and not get the thing that actually will give you the benefits. Yeah, of course, this is, like, just, I had so many questions, but now we are into this, because this is so, so exciting for me to learn like, because for me, like, I just talked with one of my clients, like, she found out Pilates like that couple years ago, and now she was just doing like. She started like she wasn't into fitness or doing anything. Then she started to do Pilates. And then at some point she understood she could she should start, actually, she started them doing strength training, and now, like she was doing pretty long already, Pilates. I don't know. I have no idea. Don't ask me what kind of Pilates she was doing, or she's doing. But what she recognized then, after starting strength training like that, when you actually like nothing crazy, just doing with some dumbbell workouts from at home and actually strengthening. And then she realized that, wow, that suddenly she makes, she made so much more progress in Pilates, what she was not able to do before, when she started, like, obviously, she was improving in Pilates, but then doing something else, like doing some like kind of strength training, in addition. Then she saw, like, amazing progress in her Pilates, and obviously that makes her happy as well. So my question is for you, what do you think is Pilates like, kind of like, Could you do if you do only Pilates, or would you recommend doing also, like, something else? Yeah, I so the type of Pilates that Pilates that I teach and that I and I believe in, there hasn't been any scientific study on it, as far as, like, if you only do, yeah, classical Pilates, way Joe supplies intended it with all of his equipment, you don't need to weight drink. So I, from a scientific standpoint, I cannot say you only need to do Pilates because there just isn't any. And then the studies that have been done, they're not doing an actual pilates workout. They're doing like, five moves. And so to me, they're not and they're also not even moves I would ever teach. Like I looked at them and I'm like, I don't even teach those moves. So like, I can't say that, but what I can say is, if you are working on mobility and strength, there is enough science to say out there that you are actually going to be doing a great thing for your body. And when you do the mat pilates workout, you're going to get great mobility, but you're working body weight. And so if we look at body weight science, there's a, there is a lot out there that shows that it can be very, very effective. So that, so there's that. So I could say, from map place perspective, we can look at body weight science and go, Okay, we could follow that along. The problem is, is that most people struggle with doing the map Pilates correctly. Those supplies discovered this, and that's what he created, his equipment, right? And his equipment has springs, and the spring resistance is really cool because it actually can, it adds a resistance, as if you were, like, using a machine, a cable machine at the gym, it adds resistance. And so that's going to stress your muscles in a different way. So I think that that for some people, if they're doing the full Pilates system four times or more a week, yes, they're good, right? They're probably fun. That being said, you know, I don't, because we all have a different way of growing up, a different childhood. We have all different bone densities. You know, there's so much research I've been doing, like, like, on how when you're born, like, how you're born, can affect your bone density. I do think that I would have fear saying only doing Pilates, because what if someone does need to be doing some heavy weight lifting, for bone density, for strength building, like, what if they need to? So personally, I do Pilates four to five times a week, and I do two or three of the days or 30 minutes. I think that we, there's that we. I don't know why everyone thinks their workouts have to be an hour, especially for women over 4030, minutes of working out is really good because it doesn't spike cortisol. It doesn't in a way that's damaging, and going to have reverse effects of working out. And then the two of the days are going to be almost a full hour. And so I give myself that, but I still go to the gym and lift heavy weights a couple days a week. I also walk every day, and I think people are looking for this quick fix or the simple thing, and I hate to break it to you, but I think we have to do it all. I think we have to I think we have to use our bodies more. And I and I wonder if 100 years ago, that would be the same answer, because 100 years ago, we would have to walk everywhere to do anything. We would have to, like, actually cook our food. And we'd, you know, we didn't have these comfortable shoes and these comfortable chairs, so, but in today's world, we have to kind of offset all the sitting and all the resting and all the binge watching TV with something and so what I would say is like, I hope you love Pilates. I love it. Yeah, and, and, but if you don't find things that make you want to move your body more, because you will regret it later. And I had too many people come to me at 60, there are things I cannot change at 60 in your body. Now that being said doesn't mean don't do anything, because you could live to be 90. So we could have 30 years together, right? And you could have 30 really, really strong years. I've seen it happen. So I have a girl I taught. She's a teacher, and she went through my program, and she had a client come to her at the age of 90 and he's 97 now, and he's doing things that you would never think a 97 year old would do, so like, don't, don't, everything gets too late for you, but also give yourself permission to have a variety of things you can be consistent at. Yeah, no, that's so well said, and I I totally, I have exactly the same thing like, what I think like, especially for someone, when we are going over 3040, 50, and anything after that, you have to have that kind of, some kind of movement, like you said, walking, or whatever cardiovascular you don't Need to be running. I'm big fan of walking myself, too. So of course, that is mainly it's easier for joints. It's great for mental health. And then some form of resistance training. It could be Pilates, it could be lifting weights. Probably, my opinion is, and then obviously some kind of mobility. Work. What was not talked in, in that is something, what is like Now recently, like I, when I was a professional life city player, nobody even knew about mobility. It was all only about like, all who are born in 80s or before that, they know only about stretching and mobility is totally different. So if it's a combination some kind of resistance training, mobility training, and test daily activity. So I believe that combination and whatever is the best, what makes you to feel most that you are actually consistent. So if it's one Pilates, one strength training, one longer walk, and that's, I think you have covered already, pretty much everything, if you get that mobility work in, yeah. And also it can these things can be fun, right? Like, I do my strength training with my husband and my father, like, that's when I go to the gym. So we're spending time together as a family. We combine that time I walk, I have a dog that loves it. So if you are like, get a dog, get a neighbor's dog, go to a rescue and walk their dogs, like, I get to do that with him and and so we so I combine things, because I get that people are really busy. And I also do understand that if you are listening to this and you don't currently move more than one time a week, that's gonna feel overwhelming. Start small. Start small. Because what like, here's what the thing like, I love my mom. I love her dearly. When she gets motivated to work out, she all of a sudden, walks two miles that day, and then she goes to the swimming, and then she goes this, and it's like, and then she's sore the next day and she can't get up. And it's like, right? You should just walk around the block then swam a lap, you know, done a setup like, don't, don't go too hard, too quickly, because that all or nothing mindset is actually just that could actually create injury, or it could create resistance, or you could feel shame or judgment, and that stuff is not how habits are created. Mm, hmm, yeah, no, that's so well said and couldn't. Couldn't agree more. So let's get actually topics. What I had to talk with you, that was just 20 minute introduction about Pilates and talking about what is the benefits and everything, and that was so exciting to learn. So sorry for how hopefully somebody enjoyed listening that. So you had a little bit about your story that said you had an interesting background. Yeah, so I grew up in a small town. My family is very athletic, so I was very athletic, and I went to college and didn't do sports in college because I didn't get a scholarship that I felt was worth the time. But when I graduated college, all of my friends had left town. So here I was in a town I lived in for four years, but like, all of my friends had left. And I think if any, if you're all adults, listen to the show like, it can be really difficult to, like, make friends as adults, especially when you take away, like, common, shared experiences, like, when you go to school and you have classes people, it's so easy to kind of make friends, like, right there. So I was like, I said earlier, like I needed a friend, and a friend invited me to applies class. The more I went to that class, the more connected I got with my mind and body. And I remember in one of the classes going, I actually don't like living here, you know? And I was like, Whoa, where'd that thought come from? And that's like, and I think that's really interesting, is the more connected you get to your body, the more you become aware of, like, how you're really feeling and what you're really interested in, and and then you become more aware of opportunities, because you know what you're looking for. And I went to work that day and and someone was like, Oh, the girl who had my job at a different location in different cities, like, hey, it's what, you know, I put my tweak notice in, and I was like, Oh, I'm going to transfer to your store. I'm going to, like, I have the same job as you, you're leaving, so I'm going to go take your spot. And that's how I got to Los Angeles. That's how I got to the place where I started studying with teachers who were like, You should teach this. And I think what's really cool, I think anyone who can listening can resonate, like, sometimes we need someone outside to see something in us, to see potential or possibility. Like, I didn't know I could be a Pilates instructor. I didn't even know you how you became a Pilates instructor. Like, I didn't I went to college. I was like, I there was no Pilates degree at my school. Like, you know, like, I didn't understand how that world worked. And so I needed someone who believed in me, who did to really open that up. And so, so when I became applies instructor, it was actually, like I said, was in 2008, so that was the world recession. It was really hard for a lot of people, but I was getting a ton of people wanting Pilates with me. And I haven't believe it's because I was super passionate. And at the time, people were just hearing too much negative. And here I was like, having this passion, but also what happened during those same years of that recession is that boutique fitness really exploded, because people were looking at, I want to spend my money in a place that's going to matter, and our health is actually one of the most amazing places we can invest our time and money. Because. Like being sick is expensive. Being in pain is expensive. Your life is shortened, like you have you you don't get to have the same experiences. So I really got busy doing that. And then the other thing that happened is that because of my experience in retail, because of my business degree, I was super successful at growing a Pilates business. And so I actually started coaching other teachers on how to do it as well. Because the reality is, is that a lot of people who are in service based businesses, massage therapists, nail artists, PTs, personal trainers, all these service like they often overwork and under earn, which means the world will lose them someday, because they'll burn out, right? Or they just won't be able to afford to do it. And I know I'm not the teacher for every single body, so I really wanted to help out other amazing people in doing that. And that's kind of how I got hired to go around the world. And I've been so lucky to teach Pilates in so many countries. And when I started to study with Jay Grimes, who I mentioned was one of Joe's one of Joe Pilates clients, he's the person who really helped me understand imperfection and being in process and Pilates can attract a lot of perfectionist people, Type A personalities. And because of the type of people that attracts, there's a lot of perfectionism in it. And he was, like, very adamant, like, no Joe supplies. Let you be in process, let you be in, like, in in your body, and work your things out. And he used his exercises to help you with exercise you can't do yet. And so he really helped me, kind of, like, re look at everything that I was doing, how I was teaching it, and how I was personally practicing it, and how can I actually allow myself to be more curious instead of judgmental? And how can I go, Okay, well, that isn't exactly the way the exercise goes yet, but I'm on my way. I'm not doing it in a dangerous way, so you have to be safe, but also you have you can't force something into the proper alignment if you don't have it yet, you know. And so his his way of him teaching me that really changed how my approach is in life and in business and in helping people. It's like, let's celebrate that you're moving your body, and let's look at how it's moving and go, Okay, I want your leg to straighten a little bit more this way. What exercise could teach that, though, because your body's way of doing it isn't the way I want. So there's no amount of words that am I going to say that is make your body do it correctly. I've got to strengthen a muscle, I've got to stretch a body part, I've got to open up, I've got to teach you a movement modality. So that really made it so much more fun because I'm not getting people to perform Pilates, I'm getting them to find it for themselves. And so that's the journey, that's how we got here. Nice, that's, that's, that's so nice to hear these kind of stories. How like when everything like that you have, you are coming from totally different. Because I don't think there are many fitness people or something who just, like, maybe they have been some kind of, like, interested in fitness, but you never know where the journey is going to bring you in the end. Like you just get started, and that often, like, when you are really passionate, you love what you do, and you don't like it's obviously, it's still business. But when you love so much, what you do, you put yourself out there, and that is when those chances comes. At some point, know when they are happening. So what is like? Because you talk so much about mindset. So what are some common mental blocks? You see women trying to improve their health, like you mentioned already, perfectionism, like it's that is. Like, I see that a lot in my clients too. Yeah. So my gosh, blocks for first and foremost, yes, perfectionism, but I also think it's misinformation about what women's bodies are supposed to look like and what could happen like. I still have women who think that if they lift weights or they work out, they'll get bulky. I still have people who are doing Pilates for the wrong reasons. They think it will actually change the bones in their body. I can't change the shape of your bones. I can challenge them, but like, you know, your skeletal structure, like, I think that that is the problem. And then I also think that this all or nothing mentality I have to have. I have to have acts, I feel do all of it, or I can't do any of it. Like some people will not start Pilates, or, I'm sure, insert any fitness modality, until they have lost weight. Oh, I'll start that when I lose weight. Oh, I'll start that when I'm more flexible. Oh, I'll start that when I'm stronger. Or I'll start that when. And the actual reality is, is that you don't realize, is that starting Pilates, or whatever it is that you're wanting to do now, and the amount that. You can is actually way better, and going to be the thing that gives you all of those things I can increase your metabolism after a pilates workout, which will help with the weight loss process you're on. If that's the journey you want to be on. Now, you got to figure out with a nutritionist and and and hormone experts like, what's the right journey for you with your fuel, but like, because working out alone is never going to help you do that. So I think there's just a lot of misinformation about what will help people achieve the goals they want to have, and then this all or nothing mentality, which is kind of perfectionism and disguise that is keeping people from starting things or they they don't want to invest the money, so they go and find a bigger group fitness class that may, that may be able to check the box you're doing Pilates, but not necessarily give you the benefits of Pilates. And so I would just say it's like, people gotta do you gotta do your research. Yeah, try things out. If you don't like the first Pilates class you go to find a different studio. You know, there's different types of pills, just like there's different types of yoga, just like there's different types of weight training. So you've got to find the one that that resonates with you. And then we have to stop chasing an idea of what our bodies are supposed to look like, and actually start really focusing on like, what, what and how do I actually want to live like what is most important to me, you know. And for me, my body is going to change every decade. It already has. Like as a I've been doing Pilates for a really long time, and like what I look like as a 20 something year old doing Pilates versus what I look as a 42 year old woman doing pies is very different. But I can tell you right now, I'm stronger today than 25 pounds ago, you know, and so, so I think it's more important to focus on, like, what, what do? How do I want to feel at the end of my life? And what are things that I really value? And for me, I value being able to travel. I have a wonderful husband I travel with, but I also love I want to be able to travel alone. I want to be able to carry my I want to be like, carry my own bags. I want to be able to, like, go hike up the top of the highest peak in South Korea when I'm there. Why not, you know, so focus, figure out what it is that you're wanting to do, and then have your fitness modality support that. Yeah, no, Gus, that is, that is something like, what I what I hear so often, is that just that, because, you know, the goals, what like now I feel like there's little change coming. Like, luckily that there is, like, especially women that who already have some kind of strength goals that they actually want to get stronger. And, of course, all these things, like, because there is still so many like that, you know you are the people are so focused on number, on the scale, how much they should wait and how their body should be looking, like you said. But then like, what if you would just focus on what you are actually able to do, like, what your body can do, and when you get, like, all these things, like going for a hike in, in somewhere or or being able to carry your luggages, when you when you are flying, you need to be stronger, and you need to, you need to have that muscle. And it's not like that. And strength training or Pilates or whatever form of resistance training you decide to do. It's not going to make you bulky or having a hearing test, but it's it's just that, because I what I love to say, that if you, if you start strength training, and it happens like overnight, that you start suddenly don't like what you see in the mirror, you can always stop it's, yes, it will go back. You'll lose it. You will lose it. It takes, but it takes so long time to build muscle. Like, maybe in the beginning you get it. But let's say that what is a realistic progress like, let's say that in some people, let's say that it's, it would be four or five kilograms, which is then, then bounce of muscle per year in within your first year, and then, yes, year two, when you when you are not brand new anymore. Expectation is half from that. So it would be then in pounds, five pounds, two kilos within six second year and third year, half from that, from second year. So every year longer you do it, it goes down, and then older you are getting, you are starting, actually to do your body loses automatically, muscle. Yeah, so it's not it's maintaining your strength. Is amazing progress for someone like in their feast, like, it's really crazy, because it's like, the amount of protein you'd have to be consuming to change your muscle mass so quickly that you wouldn't like it would, you would, that is what some people's dreams are. So like, I think we, we don't realize that. Like. Are. First of all, your body is always changing, and we don't we. I think people use fear of movement to get like to as also an obstacle. And I if you have fear of movement, there's an actual it's called kinesiophobia. That's fine. The best thing to do is actually tell the professional that you're working with, like, Hey, I this what I'm afraid of. And then if that professional laughs at you, get a different professional. But if that professional hears you and is like, thank you so much for saying this. Here's I hear you, and here's how this is not going to happen. Here's what we're going to do instead. Or here's how you're going to if you're afraid of falling in a movement, here's what you'll do if you think you're going to fall, like, there and Pilates are some really weird exercises. And so I always first of all, you're not going to do you should. You should not be seeing those weird exercises, the cart wheels and the headstands. For your first year of teaching like or practicing Pilates, push didn't even happen. So if it does, go to a different teacher. But if that, if you get to an exercise like, I'm actually afraid of this one, your teacher can say, here's how you're going to get out of it if you get scared. And that allows the brain to try a movement and then do that movement. And it's also just a sign that you're with a good professional, that they're like, Okay, I hear you. Here's why I think you're ready for this exercise, and here's what we're going to do. So that if you do feel like you're going to fall, you can do this, you know. So I think that, like, I don't know, I want more people to move their bodies, because I've seen what happens if you don't, you know? Yeah, you might make it to 80, but it's going to be a really uncomfortable 80. You're going to need a lot of help. Yeah, no, it was that is, that is, it's so sad. Like, I don't know my personal story, I That's why, like, what changed for me so much, like I was even I thought I was athlete myself, but then when I retired, I was 30, then it took a decade for me to I didn't I didn't want to do anything i or i just wanted to do things I love, but I I hate it. I still don't enjoy strength training. I do it now, but I took 10 years off because it was something what I had to do when I was an athlete, even I didn't enjoy. And then came a point that, okay, I I just don't do it. I do something else, what I enjoy doing, and that will be enough. Obviously, it's better than nothing, but some form of resistance training, like for me, what changed everything? And I was also a person who then started really motivated something. Then it took, like, a week or two, and I found myself finding excuses for myself to quit, or kind of that perfect, perfectionist. What we talk like if, if I don't have at least 30 minute or one hour full hour, then there's no point doing 10 or 15 minutes, because that is not a real workout. But what, what changed for me was two years ago, when my or that's already longer, when my dad got really sick and passed away. That's now two years ago, and only at the age of 70. And last 10 years, he couldn't walk anymore. He was, last two years, just laying in a pit, losing all muscle. And that was like there was some issues, but big of those issues were that he was never willing to work out, and he never did something for his body. And when you see it, someone close to you losing all your body, is losing all that ability to move, and how painful that is. And I was that was, for me, like kind of wake up moment, even it was a sad moment, and it is still sad, but it was at the same time lesson to learn, like how important it is to keep doing. And that is like my way of motivate still is I have when I have, when I have, trust me I have, almost every single day, I barely, never feel motivated, especially for my strength training, but I have a picture of my dad reminding me, and then when I try to talk myself out like, you know, sometimes it's a work, sometimes it's a family, whatever we have, all of us have 1000 of those excuses, but If I I have put my workout into my calendar, and I don't have excuse that I don't have a time because I have booked appointment for myself, and if I still don't feel like it, I look to that picture of my dad, and that is kind of was that fear or pain is greater than pain of actually getting started with workout. And that is like what I believe that when you have that kind of greater pain behind you, why you are actually doing it, because if you do that just to be Peter or whatever, that will never be enough motivation to go through. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think I'm so sorry about your father, but I also think, like, how, like, the best thing you could do is use his life as as a as an example for you what you can do to do different. And I think you brought the word up motivation. And I, during the pandemic, I studied how habits are really created because I have an online pies platform. So people want access to plies. It's so much cheaper if you do it online, and your excuses to going to a studio are gone. You it's only 30 minutes. You have plenty of time. We say Finish. Like, how like, so why are some people not using it? They're not logging in. Like, how do I create help? How do I help them? How do habits actually get created? And the problem that everyone is waiting for is the motivation to do it. Oh, yeah, the motivation to get started. Motivation and in itself, is actually only good for that first, like, for something that's difficult and like, kind of like turning the car on, but you actually don't run the rest of it off of what you use to turn the car on, right? You actually use it on something more reliable. Yeah. And so the reality is, is that if you, if you're using motivation as your as your thing, to go to the gym or to move your body in any way, you will be waiting a long time, and you'll be very inconsistent. What you actually have to do is, actually have to do is, is, first of all, know why you're doing it, so you have a great why that you've shared with us. You know why you're doing it. And then you actually need to make it as small as possible to get started has to be easy to do, because if it's at all hard to do, then we need motivation. But if you don't, if it's not hard to do, you're going to do it even you like, you know, you'll just do it. The other thing is, you need to do it around something you already naturally do, right? So my husband does not like to work out. He does not like it, and he actually has gone his whole life just kind of being in shape and athletic. It's really annoying. He's just like he played soccer as a kid, and like he played volleyball and like, high school and college. So like, he just, like, is athletic ish, and he can pick up things, and like, he'll start things. But you know, now he's over 40, and so now when he's like, oh, there's a volleyball game going on on vacation, I'm gonna go play with him, it's like, yeah. And then he saw the next day, well, it's like, you didn't do the thing before the volleyball or after the volleyball, to make the volleyball easy to do, so you could do in that moment. So anyway, like you. So he wanted to be have more movement his day, but he doesn't like going to the gym, so while he's waiting for his coffee to boil, like he does Americano, he does push ups in the kitchen. I saw him do it the other day. That's not where I want to do my push ups, but I want to do push up but he's like, his goal is, like, I'm going to have these movement snacks throughout the day, and I'm going to do them whenever I'm waiting for something. And so the so if you can make the the goal being something they are attached to, like you're actually attached to, and then you make it small, and you put it around things you're already doing. It's gonna be so much easier now. This is a more this is the essential part to all of this. You have to celebrate you did it. And too often we are too hard on ourselves. We judge ourselves. We Oh, there's only 10 push ups, and I want to do 15. I only walked around the block and not two blocks, like we don't actually give ourselves credit for it, and so then the brain associates whatever you just did is causing stress to the brain, and the brain's like, I don't want to be stressed. You don't want me to be stressed, so I'm not going to think about that. Which means your your brain is not looking for opportunities to move, because whenever you think about moving, it brings you sadness, stress, shame, so you have to celebrate even when you think about moving, so that your brain is looking for more opportunities to move. And then as that becomes more consistent and becomes more a part of who you are, and you're starting to get confidence in the movement categories, you can expand the time or the intensity or the thing. Do you gotta do those things? Yeah, no, those are such a great tips. I'm sure I, I also it's just finished. I think I've been, you have been reading, for sure, atomic habits too. I think I have read it three times and another like, I'm big believer, or habits and and at those because it's, ultimately, it's all those things. And like you mentioned, putting it together with something what you already do. And like you said, doing it in a small especially in the beginning, and that's celebrating, I think that is like something what I don't hear talked a lot. And this is like, obviously, it's not like if someone or has a call to lose weight, it's not that you know you celebrate yourself eating a big cake or something, but maybe something, what is not food like, because that is like one of my favorites, favorite things, what I ask for my client. Who are like when we do weekly check in end of the week, and they are like, they hit their small actionable call and then or or read some outcome, what is like, progress call or something. And then I love to ask them, how you are going to celebrate or but it's not going to be okay. Sometimes it's okay use it food, but usually those celebrations, and this is for me, also how I celebrate my workout. It doesn't need to be anything big, but I love to have my tasty protein sake after workout. And that is my kind of small. Oh, that's a great celebration, because here's why it's great. One you're saying I can only have this really tasty one after I workout, and two, you're doing it right after the workout. So the goal of the celebration is that it needs to get you that dopamine kick right around the habit, right? If it's too far away, it's it's fine, but it won't create the habit. But I agree, like the more we can make celebrations be, like, maybe do a dance, maybe high five your kiddo, maybe, maybe you buy every time you do the thing you want to do, you book an appointment for self care. Like, at least the booking of the appointment is right away way, even if the appointments further out. So there's just got to be things. But I love your example of, like, that tasty protein shake, because I have a couple favorite protein shakes, and I'll, if I left my own devices, I'll just drink them all day, and then it's like, okay, well, you didn't eat any vegetables, so you probably should go do that. So, but I have the same it's like, you can have that tasty one after you've done the thing you didn't want to do. It's, it's, it's, but there are, like, Now, I know so many people think that, while it's such a stupid thing to do, but there's actually so many scientific proof, like, I think, can't remember it was, I think it was in NBA, in a basketball where it was, like, just for high fives, like teams who did, like, it might stop sound stupid, like you mentioned high fives, giving some high fives. Like, if you are not the high five person, but just doing some small celebrations. I think those teams, they did so much better. I can't remember now numbers, but it was just some very interesting study. Like, more those teams gave high fives with each others, like players, after whatever it there was, like, huge difference on their performance. And I believe it. I believe it. I I mean, like, even where we work out one day, we were all trying to, like, amp ourselves up. And my house like, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. Like, clapping. And we're like, okay, okay, okay. And the other workout group was like, we used to clap. We don't clap anymore. Like it's this thing. So I think that there BJ Fogg wrote the book tiny habits, and he has a sheet of 100 ways to celebrate that you did something. And so if you get his book, you can get it and it's and he is the he's really who everyone gets all their science from but he actually, at the is part of the behavior science department of Stanford University. And I really love his book. I love listening to his book like it's really, really cool. So, but he has 100 ways to celebrate. So if you're struggling with how to celebrate, go get his book. Go get the sheet. I promise you it will change your ideas. Those are, those are, and it's, like, it's not, I gotta say that it's something I'm I'm from Finland originally, and in Finnish people are all like, kind of close. They don't like to celebrate or show their emotions. But when I do like I do, also group coaching, like a fitness lessons here, where I live, and I did, we, did we do couple times in a year some workout, like, it's kind of lottery workout, where there is, like, everybody knows already exercises, what we are doing, and then they pick just one exercise, and one I built in, one, one is high five person who is Other ones are doing exercise and and that person who picks up that job is to go around whole class, clap, do big high fives for for 30 people or something. And they people love it. That's so amazing. I was like, looking like with those smiles and everything, like you are running around and you know, you are doing, like we do some band exercises or something you are doing your shoulder raises or or app exercises, and at the same time, yeah, just the break I do high five. And how much people are enjoying it, how much joy it brings and smiles on their face, like, those kind of small things, like, they make such a big difference. Mm, hmm. They really do. They really do. So what is like? Other thing about mindset? What I wanted to ask is that, how do you because we talked about like that, like kind of body dysmorphia and and because there are so many people who are not happy to be how they. Yeah. And then you know that thinking like that, how to fix my body, how you are, how you are changing from that phrase to that, that I want to care of my body. What are your favorite tips? Yeah, um, well, first of all, to all those people like, I see you. I feel you. I am a child from the 80s, so I read all the magazines that made sure we all had really, really messed up ideas of what a body is. When I first thought about becoming a personal trainer, this before I discovered, like, my love for Pilates, like I was thinking of a personal trainer, I read a book called rethinking thin. It's really old, and so we're talking like early 2000s and it was the history of where this ideal woman's body came from. And that book that explained where this ideal that every woman's trying to get to was a cartoon, was a drawing. And when I discovered that we are all trying to get to a body type that didn't even exist, like, it's a drawing. And it made me just get real, like, really hard to question a lot of things. And then I, you know, you start to look at, like, how different cultures and countries and types of people have just different body shapes. And so then it was like, okay, so then if, like, how could they, if they're in this type of that's like, who their background is? Like, genetically, they're just never going to be like this. And so then what are we doing here? Like, only these people can be healthy. And then what is healthy? And so started really having a lot of questions around it. And then I also read something in a women's magazine, the same ones that really want to mess this up. And it was called, they were talking about something called tofi, thin on the outside, but fat on the inside. And what they were discovering is that skinny women, at the time that was there's obviously men with Body Dysmorphia as well, or disordered eating. But at any rate, are dying from the same things that obese people were dying from more but the obese people. And so then I was like, Hold on one second. I don't what, like, what's going on here. And so these things just layered into, I want to be strong, right? And, and also, really having to wrap my head around that health is not actually something you can really see, like, what is healthy, right? Specifically, because we think that people who have a little more weight on their bones are less healthy than people who are thinner, but actually, the scale doesn't give enough of a picture of what is actually healthy, right? The scale doesn't because yesterday, I was at the gym, and there was a German guy who was on vacation. He's in the military in Germany, and he's in the Air Force. And the dude is humongous, huge. So much muscle. This person's body humongous. And he posed in the and then he posted on his Instagram, saying, I'll never have abs. So here's this man who, like, joined our bench pressing thing, and he did 15 reps of 175 pounds, like, the dude is strong, and he's like, I'm never gonna have cut abs. And I was like, we have it all wrong, right? Each one of us has biomarkers of, like, what is good? It's a good range for our body. And so how can I become more obsessed with the longevity that I'm living independently and, and then what is, what are my goals? And for me, I want to be able to walk my dog in the morning and night without running out of breath. I want to do with the weight vest on. I want to, actually, if I have the time, go an extra two blocks and then not strain me. That's what I want. Like I said earlier, I want to build a hike to a top of a mountain in a country I've never been to. If that's an option, right? Like I I'm not doing a Kilimanjaro, but I mean, like, you know, a six mile hike up to the top and six miles down, like, I want to be able to do that. So to me, I had to, and it took me a while. This is not this took me years to get over that. Letting the scale go up did not actually mean I was less healthy and to focus on muscle mass and that index, and then also how how much water is in my body, and also the strength of the muscles that I have, and focusing on my sleep. And so for anyone listening who's like struggling with this, you can't change all the markers at once, but pick one and may I suggested sleep, because I think a lot of people are so obsessed with changing the scale that they're not sleeping well. Well, your scale is not going to go any direction you want if you're not sleeping well and letting your body take time to heal. We all know this. It. The muscles must heal when you're sleeping, and then it's water, and then it's making sure that you're eating the right foods for your body, which is different than my body. And then we have to actually pick movements that you'll show up for. But can we all agree that we actually cannot visually see health on a scale, just the weight scale alone, and looking at someone's shape of their body like that. I think we need to get away from that, because it's holding a lot of people back and putting up a lot of pressure on things that don't actually it's not helpful. Yeah. Oh, it's, it's, it's like, I have been also doing this now decades, and working with many, many, many people, what I see often is still that comparison in social media, that you see some picture and then you want to look the same, and usually those celebrities or something like what I appreciated. You know, if you look someone who is using all possible you have perfect lightning, you have filters, you have it's your full time job to look good. And then, yes, you are comparing you have you, if you organize your life well, you might get three workouts in a weekend and and making sure that you eat something like what is okay, comparing to someone who is like, who have a personal chef, who is cooking meals, counting calories, doing that for living, plus using having the best photographers, filters. And then you see, and you are comparing yourself that I would like to look the same. What is wrong with me if I don't look the same? Yeah, and there are so many different markers, like you said, than that says the body weight, body weight itself. It, it's a good measurement. Like, obviously, for some some phrase, but it's, it's not going to, it's not, it's not going to change like and that so many women who I work with is that they are scared like that. You know, they need to lose weight. They have obsession of that number of on the scale, what they have to be and, you know, how funny is that? That usually, you actually think that where is that number coming from? Usually, it's time, like people who are in their 40s, 50s, and they waited that amount, maybe in their 20s, right? Maybe they still have a that that some dress in their closet or pair of jeans who they were able to fit, and now they think that that same number on the scale represents that same feeling, what they had like 20 years ago or something, yeah, oh yeah, no, we're all trying to get to the weight we were in high school. Good luck. Good luck. You're not. That's not a thing. And you know, so I, I would just say, like, find, find, get, get more understanding about why you're at wanting this and like, what is it going to do for you? Because chances are, you're missing out on a lot of life because you're trying to lose five pounds. Oh yeah, you know, my friend Jenny shatzel says, Do not miss out on 95% of life to weigh 5% less. Like, you know. Like, you're we, you know. So that she's amazing. And so I think, like, especially women, like, no one actually can see what your scale is when you're walking down the street. And if your head is high and you are shining bright and you're having fun, and you are able to carry your own bag and all this stuff, like no one is going, Oh God, do you think she gained five pounds? Like no one's doing that. And if they are, you can give a middle finger to them, like, I'm sorry. Like, they have other things to do, but like, you know, we're all compare, like the you said, comparison. It's so true. We have to stop doing it. It's not helping anyone. And that goes back to like, even when I'm teaching people bodies, you are not going to look like me in the same exercise, even if we are the same height. I have long legs, right? Like, I've been doing this for 20 years, like, all these different things. So even even in doing the same exact thing, we have to know that we're going to look different, and we have to start celebrating that as like, as a good thing. Because, my gosh, it would be really boring if we all look the same. So time clue. We could, we could keep going for another hour, but I would like to finish this episode with just a rapid fire closing and three quick questions. And so what is one thing you wish you knew 10 years ago, it will all work out. Just keep going. So good. What is your favorite way to move when you don't feel like working out? Get outside, if it's possible. And then, currently, I will be really honest, I got a shake plate and when I really don't feel. Like moving. I stand on the shake plate, and my whole body moves. And there's all this information about how it's helpful, and it's making muscles turn on, and usually when it's done, I actually do want to move. So it's that's my current obsession. And is there a book, mantra or quote that has really impacted you? Yes, Gay Hendricks book, The Big Leap I've read it seven times. I'm obsessed with this man. I'm obsessed with this book. He has the big leap year as well. And it's all about one you get out of your comfort zone. How do you handle it? And if you notice the signs of how you handle getting out the uncomfortability outside your comfort zone, you can start to notice when you are self sabotaging. So it is amazing. We self sabotage with self deprecation, worry, picking fights, getting sick. There's all these different things we do to pull ourselves back into our comfort zone. And when you can know the signs, it's a life changing so there you go. Thank you. That's actually, that is something what I'm going to order. I'm I'm just looking new books for myself, and that that sounds like exactly what I want, and I trust your word, and I'm going to order you tell me when you're done reading it. I want to hear your takeaways. Yes, absolutely. So Leslie, where people can find you. You have your own podcast, you have a website. Please feel free to share everything. I will add some, then all information to my show notes, but feel free to share all. Yeah, I love to hang out on Instagram. My name is Leslie, dot, Logan, Ellis, l e y that's where I like personally, hang out. And I have a lot of my thoughts, and I share things that are going on. But if you want to do Pilates with me, online Pilates classes.com really simple. We call it OPC for short, but online Pilates classes.com we have easy ways. If you've never done Pilates, there's free programs for you in there. And then my podcast is called, be it till you see it. And if you're interested in that book I talked about Gay Hendricks is episode 400 and you can you could hear him and see if you like him and his voice and his words before you dive into his book. But, um, I started the podcast because so many people are waiting until something happens to be the person they wanted to be. And I was like, what if we all started acting like the person we wanted to be now, and I just interview people who help, who helped figure that out. So anyways, yeah, check it out. Oh, thank you so much. And like I said, I add all information to show notes. So make sure you check them, and if you insert the episode, I would love to hear from you. And as well, Leslie as well, I'm sure, and please leave those five star reviews as they are helping so much so thank you so much for listening and talk to you soon. Bye.