is the episode I've been personally probably the most excited to record. Jordan is a person who I have always looked up, up to and he has affected me probably the most not only become a better coach, but to become a better human being. I learned so much being in his online fitness, mentorship program, and I can't thank him enough for all the work what he's doing in his social media, helping with people with their written fitness. So welcome to my soul. Jordan. Thank you for having me, brother. It's great to finally see you and talk to you. It's been a while and I appreciate the kind words and I'm very glad to be here and to have the opportunity to speak with you. Awesome, so I'm always interested to know about that. Story. So where you are coming from and why you are doing things what you are currently doing. So tell me a little bit about your childhood. Like if you go like you don't have to start like when you were like two years old or something but a little bit about your childhood and relationship with health and fitness. Yeah, so I started getting into health and fitness from wrestling. And I started wrestling when I was eight years old, and my entire family, entire family it has been overweight and unhealthy for generations and no one's really been focused. No one's really focused on health or fitness. And so I think early on that caught my attention. And then when I started wrestling, I just got obsessed with it. I absolutely fell in love with it. And because of that, I started really focusing more on my health and my nutrition, strength training. And by the time I got to high school in my first year of high school, I ended up making varsity as a as my first year in high school, and I had to cut a lot of weight and I had to get a lot stronger because I was 14 years old and I was going up against mainly 17 and 18 year olds and there's a huge strength differential. And so I ended up applying to a gym a couple towns over for me. I grew up in Boston, outside of Boston, Massachusetts, and I applied to a gym I just said Listen, I'll I'll take the trash out. I'll clean the floor. I'll do whatever you need me to do. Just let me come and intern and learn from you. And I was very blessed and fortunate because they took me under their wing and they let me intern there and they were also very science based like very, very science based, which now is getting more and more common but back then in 2005 2006 it was not very common. To have a very science based gym. And ever since then, that's what I've wanted to do. I knew I wanted to be coach ever since then. And I fell in love with that I fell in love with not just working out. I think one of the issues that a lot of coaches have one of the reasons a lot of coaches burnout is because they don't actually like coaching people they just like working out and I fell in love with coaching people I fell in love with the process of trying to help someone go from where they were to where they wanted to be and understanding that their journey wouldn't look like my journey. And it might be longer it might be more difficult. Maybe they're not going to enjoy it as much as I enjoy it. But that's part of what I loved. I loved the challenge of doing that and seeing the progress. So I've been doing it ever since. Oh, this is this is usually how it how it's getting started. So how was your relationship with your parents? Like, what kind of parents you'd had? So so my parents, between themselves had a very explosive relationship. It was not a very good marriage at all. And I remember all through my childhood, just thinking like I just hope they get divorced. Like I just I really wanted them to because it was awful in the house. And I was very close with my mom and not close with my dad. So even now I haven't spoken to my dad and probably about 10 years or so. And even then, like it wasn't a good conversation though. So like, I don't really have a relationship with my father. With my mother. I'm very close like I'm like extra close with my mom. I think because of that. My mom has always been unbelievably supportive. And we've definitely had our differences and we've had our arguments and and all that but I think one of the best things about my mom is she always encouraged me to go do things that most other parents were not okay with. So for example, at 14 years old, she let me go and work at a gym and an intern for free after school. And a lot of parents would be like, Absolutely not like you're gonna be home, you're gonna do your homework. And my mom saw that this is something that I was really drawn to and passionate about. And she was like, yeah, absolutely. Let's make this happen. And after high school I want I didn't want to go to college right away. And so I went to Israel and I traveled for a year and I volunteered with Holocaust survivors and it was arguably the greatest year of my life. And I know a lot of parents gave my mom shit for that and they were like, What are you doing? He should be going to college. Why are you having to do this? And and she went through a lot of heartache in order to do what she thought was right for both my brother and I. So very, very close to my mom. And again, just because we're close doesn't mean we don't have arguments. Of course we have arguments but like we're very close and at the end of an argument we can always say I love you so much. I'm here for you. And and yeah, so I haven't spoken my dad in a very long time but my mom I'm very close with Yeah, oh gosh, this is I can I can relate this so much. Like I didn't have very good relationship with my dad or we had but there was like when I went a little bit deeper like what I'm why I'm doing like, like why you are like me, we try to help people as many as possible and and when you really liked it, it was even hard to realize that that why where is that all coming from and when I took little bit went deeper on myself. It was what I understood that there was what I'm actually missing is love from my dad. I had never never got it and and he was always there. We didn't have that kind of relationship than you but that was always kind of missing and and then Now later on you understand that that's actually the driving force then to show it so it to your it's usually it's that missing love what you wanted. Theory bowl. I do everything What do you can so what was how do you think that now when you are you are you just have a newborn daughter and and how those relationships what you had with your parents how they affected your current situation as a father and and a father. Yeah you know, it's it's a great question. I think one of the things that that I struggled with growing up was I'll tell a story the best way I can explain the story. Sometimes stories are a good way to get across what you want to get across there are many reasons I don't have a relationship with my dad. But one of the things that I'm using as a way to model what I would like to be as a father is I remember one one time I was playing baseball, and I was on a team and I was I was pitching and my dad very rarely came to the games like very rarely maybe once or twice an entire season. And he wouldn't, he wouldn't watch like he wouldn't he wouldn't see the game he'd be there, but he wouldn't be there and I remember I was pitching and I just I kept looking off the mound into the into the stands. And he was not he wasn't there he was on the phone and he was just Oh way just talking to someone else but he wasn't watching it. This is one of those memories that like for whatever reason, it's just burned into my brain and I'll remember it for till the day I die. I don't remember anything about that day. I don't remember anything about that game. I don't remember anything about anything other than continually looking off the mound and seeing him not paying attention. And, and to be very honest, like that's not that's not the reason why we don't have a relationship like that's very small in comparison to to the other things that I think we struggled with. But as a father and as a business owner, and someone who's you know whose entire business is on my phone and computer and social media. I am acutely aware that I have a big issue with looking at my phone a lot. And I am trying my best and my daughter is only nine months old but I know she can already she can see things like she's aware. I'm doing my absolute best to make sure that when I'm with her, I'm not on my phone. And and I know I'm going to make mistakes, I know there's gonna be issues and when she gets older, she's gonna have things that I did poorly and wrong and she's gonna have all that I think like every kid does without their parents. But one of the things that I really want to try and make an effort towards is making sure my kids know that I'm always there. For them. And that regardless of work, regardless of whatever it's like they are the priority. And so that is something that I'm really trying to make a concerted effort and to constantly have top of mind understanding that the priority in my life is my child, my children and my wife. And that's number one. I love it because this is that is probably the best the best example telling it like this way in a story like maybe it was at the time was for your dad was small thing like that, you know it's just going to game but if he was not there never present. Again. It's same like probably like nowadays. Not only you but so many people are struggling with that you know you are kind of with your kids or or family. But you are with your mind you are somewhere else and it really was people recognized even small kids, you might think that they don't see it but like you said that you remember it that the rest of your life. I mean that was maybe probably he won't remember that. You have no idea. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So even now from outside it like Mike looks like that. You know you are you have a business he's doing great. You had a family, everything bad. But as we both know, that's not the whole truth that we are still humans and we have some fears and those fears they are probably all the time kind of changing. Like I just saw your recent post and add your podcast episode. I think it's not published when we are recording this in Jordan site, mini podcast episode, but it really hits me home and it's so relatable. But before going into that current situation, let's talk about a little bit your past fears and how you overcame them. So what kind of fears you remember having when you were younger, and when you started for example, in your online coaching business. I think the biggest fear in my past had a lot to do with what we struggled with my family growing up, which was money was always a huge issue. It was always a constant problem in the house. It was a huge source of stress. And I was very fearful that I would live my life and my family wouldn't live their lives in the same way that I did my childhood with where money was always a problem. And and I think that fear is honestly one of the things that drove the success of my business is seeing what that was like and experiencing it was enough for me to be like I'm gonna work so fucking hard. Because I really don't want that to be the case. And and I know it's not the it's not trendy or popular to say nowadays nowadays people just say we'll do it because you love it. And I did love my work and I still do love my work. But sometimes the love of my work isn't enough to light a fire under my ass. To work when I don't feel like it you know like sometimes loving it isn't enough to get me to do it because I don't just because I love it doesn't mean I always want to do it right like I love working out and I love how working out make makes me feel but I don't always want to work out. So same thing with business I think especially early on the fear of failing and the fear of not being able to provide for my family was really what lit the fire under me to work unbelievably hard. And that led them when you were able to make kind of income and and you were kind of insecure place and financially. I remember you were talking about like that you were scared that what if you are losing it now what if somebody something happens to Instagram you know you are using Instagram or in social media and if somebody is taking closing down those platforms and you have you are suddenly without business? Yeah, that's exactly right. It's the fear of my accounts being hacked. The fear of the like, dude, even now like I think talk of World War Three is more prevalent now than it has been since World War Two. And I'm very I've always been interested in warfare and especially World War Two is a big thing for me. But there's a famous quote that I forget who said it very famous. He this man said to the effect of he said I don't know what world war three will be fought with. But I do know World War four will be fought with sticks and stones. And basically what he's alluding to is that the world will be so destroyed after World War Three that we'll go back to like ground zero and just be like with sticks and stones like we're going to have nothing and if I'm thinking about World War Three, a real potential i For I know for a fact that the it would start with technological warfare. It would start with cyber warfare, shutting down internet access, shutting down payment access, like to your online banking, like that's how it would start and so even that type of stuff scares the living shit out of me. Because it's like, it doesn't matter how well you've done thus far. Because if everything gets shut down, really all that matters is your ability to survive. It doesn't matter how much money you have in a bank that you can't access. Yeah, no, it was kind of like a COVID thing like what you are when you are used for something and then suddenly everything is taken away and you kind of figure out kind of way to do it in another way. So but these have sifted now, like, like I said, you talk a little bit about your in your recent posts and in your probably in Podcast Episode What is coming up soon if it's not already up when this episode is out, so So you were talking Would you mind telling us a little bit sharing about that story a little bit what you shared in that podcast episode what you are scared What is your biggest fear right now? Yeah, so no, I was just on a on my own podcast. I had someone interviewing me and basically, my biggest fear that I have experienced lately, is since the birth of my daughter is this immense fear of dying and and it's whether it's the fear of me dying, or my daughter dying or my wife dying like any of those are very scary for me. I think the worst one would be potentially my daughter dying that I think is like the worst and worst of the worst of the worst. But like the one that I was talking about on the podcast was the fear of me dying and it's not the fear of my daughter wouldn't know me. That's not the fear that I have. It's more there's the fear of me not knowing her. Right the fear of not being able to watch her grow and to watch her go through all the stages of life and then to you know, to whatever she wants to do is not being able to watch her as she gets older is devastatingly scary. And and then also the idea like if I were to die, I would very much want my wife to find someone but understanding that my daughter's new father figure wouldn't be me. And knowing that nobody could ever love her as much as I do. That's fucking scary, bro. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's so true. And it's so scary. So what is if you if you what what are you doing against that those fears? What do you have, like obviously, they are shifting, they're changing. Do you have some tactics or strategies how you fight against them? I mean, I think for me, and I'm no expert. is I try and recognize that they're there. And understand that I can't really do anything about it. Right? Like that's, it's like, cool. Like, here's the fear. And I understand it's very, it's a real fear. But what do I do now? Do I just sit down and just think about it all the time, or like, do I continue to live my life? And that's where that's the vast majority of what I do. Like, I'll recognize the fear. It sucks. I hate it, but it's there. But I try and just continue living because if I'm not living and enjoying the moment, then I might as well be dead. Right? It's like, it's like if you can't live in enjoy then you're already dead anyway, you're not actually living Yeah, no, it's you cut out like what I what I like i i have also like I think my my biggest motivation is like I lost my dad a couple months ago. He was only no worries. It's it will seek very, very long and it's like five months ago, and and I wish at the age of 70 and having several health issues like even he was living last, like five, six years, basically testing hospital, nothing, not going nowhere. And that is for me, like the biggest fear is losing my health. And what I'm doing like this is on the other side, I turn it on my motivation to take action, getting my walks in doing my workouts, trying to eat as healthy as I can so I increased my possibilities and chances do have to become healthier and not end up like that. So it's basically you just have to face them somehow and keep going keep taking that action and do not think too much. About that. That fear. So what do you tell to someone like let's say now the little bit thickness topic that somebody who is having a fear like for example, gaining all lost weight back or losing all progress they have made with their hard work. That their fear is losing all of the progress that they've made. I mean, yeah, it's the way that I frame it is this. There are people who for their whole life 2030 4050 6070 years for their whole life. Have been unhealthy. They've been out of shape. They haven't eaten, well, they haven't exercised and at 60 years old, they decide it's time I need to make a change. Maybe they have a heart attack. Maybe they get their pre diabetic maybe they are actually diabetic. Maybe one of their friend dies, who knows something happens. And then on a dime, they change. And after 60 years of not working out not eating well and being very overweight. They make a change. And then in a matter of a couple of years, they look like a completely different person. They look completely different. They're super healthy. It's after 60 years of their entire life. And you're worried that after a week or a month or a year of not treating yourself well that you ruined all your progress like it's fucking stupid. To the highest degree of stupidity. It makes zero sense, because all you have to do is just get back on track and be consistent. You don't need to be perfect. You just need to be consistent. And if someone can spend 60 years of their entire fucking life, not focusing on this and then in a very short timeframe, completely change everything. Then you could have a week or a month off and it's not that big of a deal. Yeah, no, it's that it is how it is like but it's it says that our mind it's been consistently thinking like that. What if I can't I can't be perfect like I have lost an awful lot of weight and if I go out for vacation for a week, I'm going to lose and gain all most weight back. And it's obviously when you really think that it's not, that's not going to be the case. So I want to go deeper a little bit with you on how to stop binge eating and emotional eating. I know it's a large topic, but I hope we can get through some kinds of things and get some practical tips because I think you are honestly one of the best persons who I have learned this and and different kinds of strategies for binge eating. And is this this is you had I think in at some point of your life you were also you having you had some kind of been seating issues, right? Yeah. From wrestling. It was wrestling is what caused it. Not wrestling per se cutting weight for wrestling is what caused it. So from 14 until about 21 I had severe binge eating issues, anorexia, slight bulimia, I had some real disordered eating habits as a young kid. Yeah. So what kind of world are like some common triggers like or underlying causes of binge eating and emotional eating that people should be aware of like how you know that you are actually struggling with those kinds of things? Yeah, so So I'll say there are many reasons why someone might binge eat. There are many reasons. And some of the reasons are outside the scope of simply a relationship with food, or your body. One of the more common ones is actually some type of trauma in your past. Some type of abuse some there's many different reasons and for that type of binge eating, I want to make it very clear, that's not my specialty, and that's like outside of my scope. And I would strongly urge you to seek therapy and mental health help mental health help because that's, that's a different it's a different ballgame. When we're coming from a disordered relationship with food and specifically around like body image type, binge eating, or just not not liking how you look or wanting to lose weight and struggling with binging and restricting these are the things that I'm much more versed in and that's that's what I wanted to talk not going like we are both we are not some specialists and and if there is like really some issues they really want us to truly call but this is like more kind of like Dieter type who have been kind of trying to lose weight, whole life and and always eating if I don't call it maybe pinch eating maybe it's called like overeating. Yeah and emotionally eating. So so what I would say is you bring up a great point which is what is binge eating? What's the difference between binging and overeating? Right. And, and I think it's important to clarify because some people they don't know, they don't know if they're binging or not. And what I'll say is this, if you're binge eating, you'll know it. There's no question about it and the way that I can describe the difference between binge eating and overeating is overeating. You're just consistently eating more than you should. But there's not much there. I'll tell you what binge eating is like. Binge eating, is when you're already full. When oftentimes, when no one else is around, you'll deliberately stay up and wait until everyone else is asleep or there's no one else around or you will say no to going out to eat with other people because you don't want to eat in front of them. When you're all alone, oftentimes late at night and alone. You will eat on believable amounts of food and it will be seemingly uncontrollable. You will feel disgustingly full. And every bite that you put in your mouth, you'll say, I want to stop. I want to stop. I want to stop. I don't want to be doing this. I don't want to be doing this. It's hurt. It hurts you it doesn't feel good. But you feel like you can't stop no matter what and you can easily put away 510 15,000 calories away it's not having a few extra bites of chocolate cake. At dinner that's there's a that's slightly overeating binge eating is a seemingly uncontrollable urge to eat significantly past the point of discomfort. And I there's a word that I'm throwing in there that's very deliberate, is seemingly uncontrollable seemingly. The reason that this word is so important is because it is controllable. It's just you feel like it isn't in the same way like this is a in the same way that that alcoholism. Someone has this urge to drink alcohol which is a pretty shitty way of describing what an alcoholic feels like but they have an intense urge to drink. They feel like they can't stop. They can they absolutely can. And sometimes they need help in order to do it. But they can stop. Same thing with binge eating you feel like no matter what, you can't stop and that's why it's so difficult to break that cycle because it feels like it's overwhelming. Like it's insurmountable. So that's why I'm always I always say seemingly because it feels like you can't but you actually can. And this is if if you are having those feelings if you think that you are painting then we are not the guys who so to help you get some Yeah, you gotta get through therapist and some professional help. Who is more educated with this? They have. They have therapists who specialize in binge eating recovery that it's like it's a whole specialty. It's not just a regular therapist, if you you could either go through your insurance, or you could just ask the therapist and say like, Hey, do you have a thorough therapist who specializes in binge eating recovery and they absolutely exist. So what kind of started this if you if you want to identify like if you are now you know that you are not been cedar you are kind of overeating or struggling with emotional eating. So what is the what kind of strategies you recommend to identifying and addressing those things? Yeah, I think there are so many there are so so so many. I think one of them is just simply becoming more aware of of what and how much you're eating. And that's why I think one of the first things that I recommend people do is all I want, you don't even have to change what you eat you don't have to add new foods, new foods entertaining. Now I just want you to write it down. Everything that you eat, I just want you to write it. Just put it into a log. Oftentimes because when people eat, they're unaware. They're like, it's almost just like I'm watching TV or whatever it is and they'll just be eating, eating, eating without giving it much thought but as soon as you start writing down what you're eating, you don't even have to track the calories. Just write down like, I don't know, kettle corn, or ice cream sandwich, whatever the fuck it is. Write it down. And oftentimes as you're reading it, you might be like, You know what, I don't want this and then you scratch it out, and then you put it away. And that is, in my opinion, one of the simplest, easiest and most readily available for everyone just to become more aware of what you're putting in your mouth. Yeah, I love that advice. And I actually funny that you took it up like I was yesterday on a taste meets podcast and he asked me that what what I would recommend somebody as a first step by step before like people usually they wait to create Okay, here is your goals, duties, duties duties, that no first step is always to become aware of what you are currently doing. And then when you are aware of what you're currently doing, it's so much easier to start making some kind of sustainable assessments. What to do and this is I love that you took it took it to get up and it's like you said you don't have to track calories but somehow becoming aware just writing it down or, or doing something else. So is there some, some like if somebody wants to develop like have healthier relationship with food and overcome that urge to eat emotionally or overeat? What kind of studies you recommend? Yeah, there's a bunch more off the top my head one of the one of the ones that I will most commonly recommend is all combined to in one right now. I have something I call it the 20 Minute Rule. It's basically where nothing is off limits if in your mind you're like, hey, I want to have french fries. Cool. You're allowed to have french fries. It's totally fine. Just do me a favor. Put the timer on for 20 minutes. If after 20 minutes and you could do whatever you want. You could watch TV you could call a friend. Call someone tell them you love them go on a walk. I don't give a shit. Put the timer on for 20 minutes and then do something else. If at the end of those 20 minutes, you still want to have the food go for it. It's totally fine. If however, at the end of the 20 minutes, you don't want it. Well great. Now you don't have to have it. And the key part here is making sure you're making sure you know and internalize it's not off limits you're allowed to have it just wait 20 minutes. And oftentimes that delay that time between from when you want it to when you actually are deciding if you're going to have it. That delay is enough to say like you know what, it's actually not worth it. I'm really not craving anymore. It was an impulse and I don't want it another way that I use this same method is I call it the apple test. Where basically let's say you want french fries or you want something sweet. Let's say you want an ice cream sandwich. And you ask yourself first. Am I hungry enough to eat an apple? And if you are hungry enough to eat an apple cool, eat the apple first. If after you have the apple you still want the Ice Cream Sandwich. Cool. Go for it, have it. But if after the apple you're like, you know what? I don't really even want it anymore. Great. Now you don't have to have it. And there's always people who are like, Well what if I don't like apples ever fine. I don't give a shit use any fruit that you want. It could be a banana. It could be be an orange could be watermelon could be grapes. I don't give a shit. Pick a fruit. That is your that that test blueberry test, watermelon test banana test. And if you're not hungry enough to eat it, then you're not hungry enough to eat other thing. Yeah, no, I love it. Those are very very good advice. So then what what what about the role of like physical activity and exercise? Right if you are fighting against that, emotional eating or or overeating, what what you would say that should you exercise or not or what kind of role is that exercise part playing? So for me, exercise should always be done just because it's good for you. In fact, it's if you look across the longest living healthiest populations in the world, they have very different diets whether we're talking about okay, now ones in Japan or Italians in Italy. They have very different diets, but they're among the longest living populations. So the common denominator is not necessarily what they're eating, but their movement is their exercise. And so I want someone to exercise not as a punishment for eating too much. I want them to exercise because it's good for their health. So it's separating exercise from food is very important. You don't exercise to punish yourself for eating too much. Right and you don't starve yourself because you didn't work out. You eat well because it's important and you exercise because it's important. And that's it. Awesome. So, before wrapping up this episode, do you have any final tips or advice for listeners who want to break free from emotional eating habits and overeating? What I would say is if you're listening to this podcast you have the most amazing coach in Turo, he's absolutely incredible. He's unbelievably qualified. And if you have not worked with him, I strongly urge you to reach out to Turo. Turo put your email in the description. Make sure you reach out to him do coaching with him. He does online coaching and he's he's did not tell me to say this at all. I am saying this from the bottom my heart. I know Turo, I've worked with him. He's an amazing coach. If you want someone to help you with your nutrition with your exercise and relationship with food, reach out to Him, trust me, you will not regret it. Thank you so much really, really appreciate your words. And so people can find you from site fitness everywhere on social platforms shorten, say a mini podcast, or else your inner circle is is a community where I was also personally part of and love those workouts and community but he has been lighting that's the that's my goal someday to build even close to that kind of warm community what you have been able to build so. So anything else you want to add? That's it. I don't even don't even give you want to find my content. Amazing. But higher Turo. Turo is number one, trust me if you're struggling with your with your nutrition with your workouts, relationship with food higher Turo. Stop waiting, stop putting it off. Go do that right now. Thank you so much for your time. So I really really appreciate what's the pleasure to have you in my soul and and you stay in touch. Thank you, brother. Have a great one.